I recently did this interview with Kirby Allison of The Hanger Project, as part of his Shoe Shine Sunday series.
It's a little bit meandering (and my shirt seems determined to reveal more chest than anyone would want) but I think there are some interesting points of discussion.
They include the relationship you build up with a bespoke artisan, advice on picking between tailoring styles, and how I started my journey, starting with London and then expanding to Italy and elsewhere.
We also discuss points around quality, such as how much quality variance there actually is in something like a tie, compared to a suit. That was the driving concept behind the whole of my Finest Menswear book, and it was nice to talk about it again.
I also personally like being able to expand on the themes of good writing and interviewing. Always seeking to delve a little deeper - and ask the next question - has always been core to what I love about it.
I hope you enjoy the discussion.
You can read more on the shoes I feature (and Kirby kindly polishes) in my review piece here on Stefano Bemer's Blue Bespoke service.
The jacket is my bespoke denim from Cifonelli.
Nice video. One thing I usually dislike about dress shoes is how uncomfortable they are. When travelling or shopping, I usually wear sneakers, for the simple reason that with dress shoes I’d have sore feet in less than two hours and blisters in 3, whereas with skate style sneakers I can walk all day (yes, I’m aware it’s a discussable style, but it’s functional), which I usually do whenever in the city.
Is that any different with bespoke ones (said differently, can they match my sneakers in terms of comfortability)? Are there some specific points to pay attention to, such as the sole as mentioned in this video, to keep them comfortable and functional? Some specific makers you would both advise going to stay in that optic, and not an office / cab only shoe?
I would hate myself to invest that much money and energy into something that I won’t be able to really enjoy wearing and walking around with.
Thanks!
Dress shoes are never going to be quite as comfortable as sneakers. You’re not going to sprint down the street in them.
But I have ones that I wear all day, never notice, certainly never make my feet sore or give me blisters.
It’s less about particular makers, and more about finding a style, a last (shape) and maker that works for your foot.
Quality helps a little, as good leather softens better, but it’s mostly about finding that combination for you. Go to someone like Crockett & Jones, Alden, Edward Green and try every combination of last, size and width until you find one that holds your foot in the back, but gives your toes plenty of room to move in the front.
And then look after them. Shoe trees in every day, occasional cream to get them soft and feed the leather.
Simon
I annoyingly didn’t take your advice and now have a pair of EG where by heel moves about and it is really annoying (considering they are by far my most expensive pair of shoes!)
What are my options? I tried a leather patch in one but it only helped a bit…
You can try an insole, which would reduce the space inside the shoe and perhaps make the heel tighter. If that makes the toes too tight, cut it down so it’s only a half insole, in the back but not in the front.
The disadvantage with that is that it lifts the foot up, and you really want to be pushing it down into the shoe. A good option there is a foam pad that sits under the tongue. I need them with pretty much all loafers. I have some stick-on ones I found in the US but haven’t found them here. You could ask a cobbler too to just stick some foam there.
And one more option is to put something in the heel itself, making the heel smaller. That can be the best of all. Again, ask a cobbler, or perhaps show someone like The Jaunty Flaneur in London and get their advice on all these points.
Finally, do make sure you’ve worn them a dozen times or so. The sole will be hard to start with and needs to soften up, becoming more flexible and making it easier for the heel to hang onto you.
Great thanks. Any cobbler in particular that is good in London?
See this post on repairs and alterations
Anonymous, it may not be my place to ask this question, but if you are buying an expensive pair of shoes, why not ask the salesman to observe if they fit you well or not?
True. I’ve had a MTO pair made by Gaziano&Girling, and the heel cup proved to be too wide. The G&G shop on SR listened, looked at the heel cup of both shoes and decided to have the pair back for a repair. Still have to wait for the outcome, but they’re in the factory now.
“…if you are buying an expensive pair of shoes, why not ask the salesman to observe if they fit you well or not?”
A good suggestion, but unfortunately there are a lot of people working at shoe stores – even expensive ones – who do not actually know how a shoe is supposed to fit.
Certainly, they’ll check your foot length and the width of your forefoot and see where your toe sits in the shoe. However, when it comes to checking your gait, the height of your foot (instep), the narrowness of your heel and other such details, the vast majority of shoe store staff would not have a clue and would not help. Just as with buying suits, it’s really up to the customer to get an idea of what suits their foot (or figure, in suits) and to check those things when they try on a shoe or a garment.
I used to have similar experiences as the original poster, until I learnt to start paying close attention to fit. Ensuring there’s no movement of the foot (no areas of rubbing) and not too much excess volume in the shoe (when stepping, causes the sole to bounce up and hit the foot which hasn’t yet reached the ground) addressed most of the discomfort in a dress shoe. It still doesn’t make it as comfortable as sneakers, but I’m good to be up and about on my shoes for 8-10 hours. If I want some additional comfort, adding a think foam insole gets it to sneaker-level comfort.
Well, that video is certainly a one-of-a-kind idea. Your “dear, close friend” (surely a stretch?) seems to be creating a riff on Jerry Seinfeld’s “Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee”. Except even it’s more strange and just doesn’t work IMO.
I don’t get the point – he should be interviewing you or he should be talking/showing how to shine shoes. Interviewing while shining shoes is plain odd.
Anyway Simon, a rare blip in an otherwise great blog….certainly feel free not to publish this if you think it overly critical or negative.
The tone’s a little silly (you don’t really know how good friends we are or not) but no, otherwise nothing wrong with the point – that you don’t like the format.
There’s never anything wrong with criticism or negativity, as long as it makes an interesting point (defined as, something others might want to read) and isn’t too rude or personal in tone.
That was quite interesting how an Englishman and an American exchange.
You both brought to the meeting a lot of experience and I found it exciting. I think shining shoes makes Kirby focused!
Joel-
I have found that when you have the right size and last, dress shoes can be very comfortable once broken in, and the best fits, do not need much break in time at all. Also, with my boots from Alfred Sargent, Crockett & Jones, and Alden, in a bit of counterintuitive manner, the rubber soles are actually the hardest on my feet and back. They are generally heavier and have less flex to them. My double leather soles on Alden are the most comfortable, moreso that single leather, dainite, or lug (commando). I would have thought those would require a longer break in period due to the stiffness of the double thick leather sole, but it’s just the opposite. It’s a bit of a shock absorber. That said, there are several Alden lasts that fit well and several that don’t fit at all for my foot.
Good luck in your search for comfortable and smart shoes.
Instead of ‘Shoe Shine Sundays’ why not introduce ‘Flaneur to Flaneur Fridays’ ?
Each week Simon could interview a ‘Real Life’ flaneur about his life in clothes.
What was his journey ? Why does he dress as he does ? Who are his biggest influences ? What faux pas have been made en route ? What are his favourite pieces ? How and when does he wear them ?
‘Flaneur to Flaneur Fridays’ should, of course, involve only real people and not industry folk. Could be interesting n’est pas ?
I concur with Jason, most heartily in fact, regarding interviews with men of clothing (you could call it Men of the Cloth)! I would be most interested in, and amused by such a recurring column within yr regular blog.
Just to note that the shoe tongue pads you refer to, above, are available in the UK from Amazon.
Ah super, thank you. Yes, these are the ones I meant.
I notice there are heel grips too. Have you tried any of the ones on there?
Stretching the shoe topic but… I find buying loafers very difficult, I try my normal size and almost all are too tight. Each time to date I have sized up and then after 5-6 wears they suddenly feel loose but I am not brave enough to spend £500 hoping they’ll loosen up to be comfortable.
Dress shoes I have an even odder problem in that on any given day a different pair (I have circa 8 pairs) will feel more comfortable and similarly each and every pair can bite at some point but in different places on different occasions. Clearly it appears to be my foot changing rather than the shoes but really makes me reluctant to spend more than C&J handgrade… I did buy your recommended unlined chukkas but in 10 wears my little toe has created a bulge and the lining on both healcups have failed (though dont rub so have ignored)
Its in part this that has stopped me buying bespoke shoes even if I’d like to blow the budget for a single pair.
On loafers, yes that’s a common issue because loafers have no way of tightening themselves – so you’re gambling on the upper being (effectively) tightened to precisely the right position for you, which is unlikely. Most people find either they’re too small or too big, in the front or the back.
Most shoes will loosen up slightly over time, but it depends on the leather and the maker, so it’s hard to predict. Pretty much every shoe will have its leather sole soften after a few wears though, which will mean you slip out of the back less.
It’s hard to offer much advice on the dress shoes, given that variation. But it certainly sounds like it’s not worth you upgrading unless you can find one that fits better. And CJ Hnadgrade is a very nice shoe.
I wouldn’t recommend going for bespoke. You’re unlikely to find a big improvement on fit with just one pair.
I’ve tried insoles, heel and tongue pads and have had the most success with the insoles and tongue pads. Heel pads in general have not really worked for me, they tend not be substantial enough (in size and durability) and eventually breakdown with the rubbing of the heel. I’m sure this is a very personal experience as everyones feet and gait are different.
Yes, I tried them but a long time ago. I seem to remember their not sticking very well and being a bit thin. The fact that I am not using them now, suggests I was not very pleased with them. Ditto, the heel grips. I have never had any success with heel grips as they tend to come loose or wrinkle.
For two of my pairs of shoes, I am thinking of seeing if a cobbler can stick some leather under the tongues. A sure sign that things aren’t right in the fit department is that, when you do your laces up, the facings of the shoes are pretty much touching each other.
Thanks, good to know.
Yes, the ideal is getting a leather piece under there – even opening up the leather under the tongue and putting padding in there, then sewing it back down again.
I have done that in the past, for example with Berluti shoes. But it’s not an easy process for a cobbler to do.
I don’t think you are showing too much chest. Why do you feel so? If you are not wearing a tie and depending how open the quarters of your jacket are, why not leave two buttons undone?
I always leave two buttons undone, but on my bespoke shirts the fastened button is a little higher, about 1.5cm, which is the amount I like.
This shirt is a rarity in being RTW.
In the past I’ve been far too cheap with shoes and suffered high street branded dressier types of shoes cutting through my feet like razor blades. I used to wear athletic shoes all the time as i’d All but given up, but one day thought i’d Push the boat out and get some Crockett & Jones and Edward Green shoes and wished i’d Bought them earlier in my life as they haven’t sliced all my heal up as others have.
Now I have enough dress shoes to last me the remainder of my natural life possibly 40 of years or so as I have well over 50 pairs of high end shoes.
Hi Simon, you recently mentioned a (sample) pair of shoes from Maslow So’s “Mori of Shoemakers” brand. Do you know whats going on there and will you cover those more in detail in the future? The pictures look great so far.
Yes I have a pair and plan to review them, but only when the service is fully up and running, which isn’t the case yet
Thanks – Do you have any idea about when they will be ready, and on a related note, are you aware of any other Chinese makers that produce a comparable quality?
No and no, sorry.
Curious concept. I confess I did not watch it all: did you tip Mr Allison at the end?
Perhaps it could be improved by employing more arcane methods; eg. if you were both boning the leather or using champagne a la Swann Club?
Simon, How do bespoke shoemakers handle orthotics in a fitting? Would they be able to build a last around them?
It varies a lot between shoemakers – some are used to working with them and some less so. I’d suggest phoning up one or two you’re interested in.
I’m aware that some bespoke makers that can incorporate elements of the orthodic into their last–so the orthodic is no longer needed since the shaping of the orthodic is part of the last.
I suspect you’d need to show your orthotics to a maker and discuss it to find out what they are capable of doing.
Hey Kirby and Simon. Great video and learnt something from it.
However, I cringe when I see you (Kirby) flicking that polishing brush about wearing nice clothes. Perhaps a chef’s jacket or an artist’s smock might help in preventing specks of polish landing on your nice clothes?
Whilst there’s a common style for tailors in a particular city, there seems to be quite a bit of variation as you’ve mentioned (i.e. the drape cut on one end vs a more military structured one on the other in London). I wondered however, if there are ever, shall we say, ‘rebel’ tailors who break with the traditions of a particular city and offer something more distinct. For example, say a tailor focused on more structured jackets in Naples. In theory it could happen, but perhaps it’s just less likely to do so because such a tailor would be less succesful? On the other hand, perhaps the drape cut was in its origins perceived to be a break with the established style?
It was, yes, and so was Nutter and Sexton in their day.
Historically tailors didn’t make styles from Naples but then they didn’t really ever see them.
Also, worth remembering that going from English to Neapolitan requires some fairly fundamental changes to how you cut and how the coatmaker puts it together. Less of a stylistic whim like cutting a different a wider lapel