Lorenzo Cifonelli made me this beautiful suit at the beginning of the year, and I’ve meaning to write about it ever since.
He has cut two jackets for me in the past, a pale-grey cashmere DB and a green tweed SB. I gave details about both of them at the time, and you can see them at those links. However, I thought it was worth going into a little more detail here, particularly given reaction from some of my favourite tailors to this 11oz three-piece.
In the words of one cutter, Cifonelli uses an extravagant amount of handwork in its suits. I think extravagance is the right word. I offer no justification for it from a practical point of view – it is pure aesthetics.
The waistcoat, for example, is handsewn and then top stitched around the collar and the armhole; even the bottom of the lining, where it joins the cloth, is handsewn, which is completely unnecessary. Indeed, it is harder to achieve the straight line required when sewing by hand – Cifonelli’s is, of course, straight, but it will have taken an hour or more to do that one seam. I will post more close-up photos of these aspects next week.
It is easy to focus too much on the construction, however, for the fit and styling are also superb. No flat-fronted pair of trousers I have fits so cleanly down the fronts. The waistcoat uses two darts in the front – one only under the pocket – to shape it into the front of those trousers. As a result it sits clean and flat against the trousers where others often stand away.
Among style points, the roping of the shoulder and broader lapel give a great plunging-V to the jacket, without resorting to the drape or heavier canvas of English tailors. The buttons are a chunky brown horn – probably the only showy thing about the suit – that I love. I always find it funny when English tailors tell you the horn buttons they have are the only ones on the market. They haven’t spent any time looking.
At over €5000, this is an extravagant suit in many ways. But it is also one of the most beautiful things I have ever worn and many other tailors could learn from the style points as well as the construction.
More photos next week.
Photos: Luke Carby
Great Suit
Love this shoulder !
Absolutely stunning. Looking forward to more pictures.
I agree. It really is stunning how one man obtains his clothing, shoes and accessories.
Hello Simon,
Brilliant suit, as always. Thinking of your entire wardrobe, what do you consider your favourite, or ‘go to’ suit? I own a gray, nailhead A&S three piece and a charcoal Huntsman that seem to travel with me wherever I go.
Regards
You know, I was thinking about that as I wrote about Cifonelli vs English drape or structure. I’m not sure I have a ‘go to’ suit, but among the most worn are this navy, my Caliendo summer and tweed jackets, and my A&S DBs
Dear Simon,
This is truly a beautiful suit and I can understand the infatuation with all this handwork.
The suit fits you quite well but I have a small question for you regarding the vertical line on your left shoulder one can see in the first two pictures. Were you wearing a bag or is this due to the padding underneath? Also, but this is purely a matter of taste, canvassing and, as you point out, fabric, in the second picture of your breast pocket, one can see how the chest just above the handkerchief billows inside. This jacket not being of Neapolitan construction, is this due to the tension from the handkerchief?
Very detailed, I know, but such handwork precision also merits a closer look at other details. Of course, the fit and comfort, in my opinion the most important factors, can never be conveyed through a photograph, thus all the above remarks become obsolete in the light of “the” perfect fit.
LM
Hi,
Thanks for the comments, and I agree that it merits close analysis of the fit.
But I don’t think that’s ever possible with photos. Too much depends on light, contrast, stance… I’ve seen great-fitting suits look terrible in such photos, and vice versa. They have to be merely illustrative I’m afraid.
Simon
Thank you Simon and agreed!
So how about that line, or is it a crease from traveling?
No idea. It’s not there now though..
I must say I find the ironing work on the suit is great. Looking at the close up of the waist-coat you can see that the dart seems are rasor sharp and the pockets are very flat and sharp. This type of ironing work can only be done during the sewing after each single step. It is quite time consuming but I love the result.
Well done Cifonelli team!
And a great pick Simon!
really really delightful. much more of a permanent style that your title advertises than some of the more louche items that sometimes pop up….
Simon- beautiful lines and construction on the Cifonelli suit. Your shirt collar is also beautifully cut. Can you tell me who made the shirt?
Many thanks,
Rick
Thanks Rick. It was Satriano Cinque.
Beautiful beautiful suit, one that does justice to your elegance Simon! Just curious, besides the strong shoulders/lapels, is there anything else that you would say is distinctive of Cifonelli’s house style? Something that would distinguish it from the row?
Thanks David. The distinctive thing is the way that strength is achieved without very much padding, so it is still a soft jacket, then the superb level of finishing and the inventiveness of Lorenzo’s designs. Have a search through previous posts for some examples of that!
Simon
Beautiful suit Simon, and I love the combination of light blue shirt, navy tie, and navy suit. Very elegant, tasteful, and classic. Does the suit have a pagoda shoulder, which Cifonelli sometimes uses, or another type of shoulder design?
No, Cifonelli rarely has a pagoda shoulder as that is built up through greater padding at the point of the shoulder. Cifonelli has little padding, creating a soft shoulder, but creates that impression of width with a more pronounced, roped shoulder
Beautiful buttons, Simon, where did you obtain them from? Definitely nicer than the dark brown shiny horn recently added to a blue cashmere jacket I had made in Naples
Cifonelli supplied them. Lorenzo has a thing for interesting buttons. Yes, the Neapolitans do like their shiny horn..
What’s the fabric? Thanks
Amazing! It worth the price!!
May I ask what would be the average price for an bespoken odd jacket. Would like to get one
Simon, this is an absolutely fantastic commission. Would you mind telling us a little more about the cloth?
I don’t have it to hand as it was a while ago, but I’ll check with Cifo
Hi Simon,
Could you give me some information on the cloth please?
It is a 9oz worsted, plain weave.
Hi Simon,
Do you know current pricing for Cifonelli? Given that this article is 2.5 years old and SR prices seem to have gone up more than 40% since then, I would imagine an equivalent Cifonelli three piece would be considerably more than €5000 today?
Thanks,
S
I’ll check, but they certainly haven’t gone up that much
OK, so it has gone up – now 6000 euros for a two piece. So 20% rise rather than 40%
dear simon
i have made suits with ciffonelli but honestly not a perfect suit.
the suits are ok with the button open but closed. they are tight in the back area and wrinkles do show up.
can you show more pics on your blue suit (back area).??
i travelled all the way from Latinamerica 3 times , very expensive and not perfect. For me has been dissapointing.
Interesting, thank you. Did you communicate these issues to Cifonelli? The tightness across the back in particular is a question of personal taste
(and wrinkles can happen regardless of fit – it’s something very hard to judge and talk about online unfortunately)
Yes i did. They are going to re-fit the suits again . But my expectations were high having MTM before, and now investing into bespoke and besides travelling from so far. i think bespoke demands a lot of time on site to make it really perfect… between appointments , fittings and adjustments…..
Yes, this is true. It is time-consuming – and one good reason why people often have just one tailor. Perfect that pattern, and then you never have to shop around again
Are Cifonelli’s notch lapels “fish mouth” like you see some other French tailors cut, Simon?
No, not usually
Hi Simon,
Have you had any experience will Cifonelli RTW? I’m looking to get a new suit and upgrade from my existing Canali RTW. I’m tossing up between Thom Sweeney, Tom Ford and Cifonelli. I’ve decided on RTW as I’m based in Australia and I’d be purchasing online. What would be your recommendation of the three if any?
Thanks in advance,
Nav
I haven’t had any I’m afraid. Do look at my post how to buy a good suit if you’re looking for to assess quality in person however
Hi Simon,
Can you please post more pictures of this suit? A post on your navy business suits would be incredibly helpful, especially for those that want inspiration commissioning their navy business suits. As would a post on the various parts of a suit and how differences affect the overall piece (some of this information can be found scattered in several of your posts.) Can you do a post on suit and trouser linings (eg. silk charmeuse v bemberg, etc.)?
Personally I am building a uniform wardrobe with navy suits in different fabrics. I am thinking of starting with a 12-13 oz high-twist, something that can take a beating year round. Any specific fabric recommendations?
Also, have you considered a dupioni silk suit?
I know these are a lot of questions. As always, thank you so much for taking the time to answer them!
Hey Jay. Some big questions there that, as you point out, are probably better for full posts.
But a few quick answers:
– I actually don’t have many navy business suits, only Cifonelli and Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, plus an old Timothy Everest one. The other navys are too flamboyant for the office (eg Chittleborough).
– Try not to be so prescriptive with how you want to build your wardrobe. Try one or two navys first, always starting with the most practical and versatile, and see how you go
– I don’t really like dupioni silk, no
I know that you usually have cuffs on odd trousers. But do you usually have it on worsted suits?
No, usually not, particularly not on English ones. But on occasional itlaian ones, yes
Its awesome, May i know what is the cloth of that beautiful navy suit?
i wanna make one too
I’m afraid this won’t be available any more – the piece is rather too old
Hi simon,
Hope you are fine. Could you give thé Fabric référence ?
Thank you !
Best regards
For this suit? I’m afraid that won’t do you much good, as the suit is old and the precise cloth won’t be available any more.
But it’s a 9oz plain-weave worsted
do you have a full length photo of this suit anywhere on your blog? cant tell properly in the first photo, but the fit onthe trousers looks pretty slim. quite sharply tapered. is that right?
Yes they’re pretty slim, though not that tapered – just slim throughout.
You can see the suit in full on the Style Breakdown piece here.
Hi Simon,
When selecting a navy colour for a suit, if there are two navy shades, for instance H&S have Navy solid and a dark nay solid, which one would you go for?
Dark navy.
You can go too dark with navy, where it’s midnight and just looks black, but there’s a far greater danger of going too light.
Simon,
If someone already owns a Dark Navy herringbone suit, and is looking for another business navy suit what would be some recommendations? Should I go for a lighter navy solid? I find I like some birdseyes, the ones that have little color contrast, but dislike ones with significant color contrast. I have found that I like color variation in my grey suits, so I like grey sharkskin for example, but I dislike color variation in my navy suits. Not sure why, just a personal preference I guess. I agree with what you said about lighter navies, you have to be real careful that you don’t end up with a non-business appropriate blue. If you were in the position of having a dark navy herringbone suit and wanted another business appropriate navy what would you consider?
Interesting. Would a navy flannel be appropriate for work? That would be a nice way to introduce something interesting but without pattern
It certainly would be appropriate, however I live in the American South and flannel wouldn’t get a whole lot of use. I also am not a huge fan of less durable cloths. I suppose I could consider a worsted flannel, which I know isn’t though of highly on this website, however it is a favorite of Chris Despos who I think you did an article on in the past and something I have considered…
Yes, personally I don’t like worsted flannel. It loses all the characteristics of flannel that I like. If you live in warm weather, how about a high-twist wool? Nice texture as a result too
Thanks for the suggestion, I certainly will consider high twist for a nice alternative. If you have any particular fabric books you like please throw them out. I have access to Fresco and Crispaire, perhaps others as well but I have never really considered high twist for anything other than odd trousers in the past so I haven’t done a lot of research. Thanks again.
There’s an article here you might find useful on that:
– The guide to high-twist bunches
Hi Simon
I’m currently in the toss up between commissioning a three piece or a two piece suit
Would you wear a three piece suits in most daily activities?
If not, would adding a waistcoat you rarely use and affect the fit of wearing it as a two piece? Therefore reducing the value of that better fit you get from bespoke?
Thank you
Hey Nick,
The waistcoat shouldn’t make any difference to the fit, no. But I would still go with two piece. I never wear a waistcoat these days, and it feels too smart most of the time.