This post could come under the ‘How great things age’ or the ‘Reflections on bespoke’ heading.
Whatever the category, readers have asked frequently about this pea coat, how it has held up and – more specifically – whether I ever changed the buttons.
I did.
Much as I loved the vintage gilt buttons I sourced from The Button Queen, the coat was a bit too ostentatious with 10 of them running up the front. Too military vintage; not enough contemporary elegance.
I swapped them for dark-brown horn (with Graham Browne).
I had assumed I’d use black horn, to reflect the colour of the embroidery, and had said so at the time. But when we looked at both on the coat, either worked. And I prefer the varied colour of the dark brown.
There is very little I would change about this coat if I did it all over again.
One, however, would be the angled welt pocket under the lapels (which you can see on the chest in the image below).
This is very functional, at the perfect height for my right hand and a good size. But I find I fold that left-hand lapel up a lot, which then exposes the pocket.
Davide (Taub, Gieves head cutter) and I had assumed this would be a rarity, but we were wrong. If I designed it again, I’d stick with the internal pocket underneath that lapel, which is only just hidden and almost as convenient (when the lapel is down).
The only other thing I might reconsider is the cloth.
It’s loden, which is an alpaca/wool mix and traditionally used for the Austrian coats of the same name.
Loden’s key virtue is that it holds a nice sharp line even in light weights, and with no other structure in the coat. That suited my aims, as I was afraid of having something too heavy.
In retrospect, however, a heavier weight would have been fine, and a slightly thicker, spongy wool (as more commonly used for pea coats) might have been nicer.
That’s a relatively small point, however, and overall I love this coat: it’s proved incredibly useful, been widely admired, and I’ve hugely enjoy wearing it.
One reason it’s so useful is that (as with all pea coats) it bridges formal and casual rather nicely.
It’s long enough to cover a jacket, and although I wouldn’t wear mine with jeans, it covers most other eventualities.
Given I cycle a lot (often going to appointments on a Boris Bike in London), a coat this length is also particularly practical: not as long as a regular overcoat, and not the slightly awkward in-between length of a car coat.
Interestingly, the embroidery (above – in black, by Hawthorne & Heaney, drawing on Gieves archives) is rarely remarked upon.
I was a little afraid that, even in black, it would stand out too much. But often it’s not noticed unless I point it out.
The fit and cut, however, immediately set it apart.
No pea coat would ever have this much shape through the waist. Partly because ready-to-wear can’t do that and cater to a broad range of men, and partly because pea coats were historically much squarer and so tend to be designed that way.
The bespoke make also gives it a natural shape in the chest, which is very flattering, and allows things like the collar to be the perfect height and shape for me.
The undulating curve of the front edge, although achievable outside bespoke, is also very distinctive.
I love the way it starts quite tight at the neck, runs a broad, deep curve around the chest, then dives straight through the waist and hips, before kicking out ever so slightly at the bottom.
Other subtle but highly enjoyable points include the hip pockets, which were positioned at the perfect height for me to plunge my hands into. And the quilting detail on the inside, which of course no one normally sees.
If you want to, you can read the full step-by-step process of designing and fitting the coat back in 2013 in these posts:
1 The inspiration, design, and ‘Who dares wins, Rodney’
2 The first fitting, including sizing for a jacket and knitwear
3 The making details, with quilting and embroidery
4 The final coat, where I first start ranting about that front edge
5 Details: The buttons, the designs, and the outfit it was worn with
In the images in this post, I am also wearing:
- Olive-green cotton-twill trousers from Whitcomb & Shaftesbury (Loro Piana cottons bunch)
- Silver/cream Kishorn scarf from Begg & Co
- Brown oxfords with alligator insert from Saint Crispin’s (also getting their own post soon)
Photography: Hannah Miles @photographybymiles
Strange, the cloth seems much lighter / greyer in these photos. Maybe it’s just me!
Just the light and the photography…
You seem to blame the photography a lot for inconsistency in colours etc. Given ensuring colour accuracy is the bread and butter of many professional photographers I’m surprised you’ve not considered changing photographer given they struggle with it.
Have always said this is a coat I’d love, minus the original brass buttons. Certainly a bespoke peacoat is on my list for this year, though more likely Graham Browne for my budget
Thanks Bob. I do use different photographers, but you’re right we should focus more on consistent colour
You would probably never achieve colour consistency in images. Few people colour calibrate their screens and alternating photographers will mean different camera systems, editing workflows etc. Plus the artistic licence each one will introduce to produce more attractive images to view. Where colour reproduction would be useful is in close ups of cloths for example – perhaps a small image just of the cloth would be useful when reviewing or introducing a new piece would help? Beautiful coat, by the way Simon – the shape and fit makes it immediately stand out out.
Hi Simon
Love the shape of the coat when it is completely closed.
If you’d like a few shape-based changes, will the tailor charge you again for adjusting the suit? (I understand that changing buttons would obviously cost something and hence your decision to go to GB instead of G&H directly)?
Thanks,
Simon
If you want to change things a good while after taking the suit, then yes they will usually charge. As with alterations from changing size etc.
I didn’t use GB because they were cheaper, just because they had the buttons and they’re closer to me.
Thanks a lot for this post Simon. That pea coat – for years now – is one of my favourite pieces you have comissioned.
I love the coat and it was an inspiration for mine made my Pirozzi which is without a doubt one of the most useful pieces in my wardrobe.
I don’t like the colour combo with the olive green trousers though.
You mention that it’s long enough to cover a jacket should one be worn underneath.
More generally is it possible to have a coat that works well with or without a jacket or would one need a with jacket coat and a without jacket coat.
I assume it’s the accomdation of jacket shoulders that determines this ?
Yes indeed, the shoulders are key. It’s something we discuss on most projects with coats and did on this post on the pea coat.
It is certainly possible to have both, but a little bit of compromise is usually required.
Amazing to see just how big an overall change something small like buttons can make. When you first revealed the coat on this website, I loved the fit but thought it looked a bit dated and archaic, or old military as you say. This has completely transformed it into a much more modern and, in my opinion, stylish piece.
Great looking and functional coat, made even better by the switch of buttons. I think the photographs are fine by the way, but would’ve like to seen the one with the coat unbuttoned.
Hello Simon
Interesting post!
I have a pea-coat in the very same cloth and would now with
hindsight like change that too.
I don’t mind that the cloth isn’t quite as heavy as you would
normally expect for a pea-coat. My biggest issue with it is that
also being Loden it is not at all hardwearing. The fact is that after
just one season of use the cloth is in parts already threadbare.
I was wondering in you have the same problem and what would be
your alternative choice of cloth.
Best
Arndt
Hi Arndt,
I haven’t, but then I can imagine I perhaps haven’t worn it as heavily as you have.
I would go for a navy wool overcoating, from Fox or one of the other English mills. Perhaps around 23-25 ounce.
Do you mean something like this (in principle, I know you can’t judge cloth well online)? If so, is that also something you’d use for a standard overcoat?
http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/prod/1068/west-of-england-coating/fox-classic-midnight-coating
Yes and yes
Arndt, there’s actually quite some difference in loden. The one used by G&H was by Leichtfried, an exquisite quality made from merino wool rather than ordinary wool in a complicated process. It’s another standard than the traditional rather felted quality, but so is the price of the cloth.
Simon
The pea coat looks fantastic and is one of my favorite pieces from your commissions, I particularly like the shape and details of the back.
One question I have though is on the fit of the shoulders. Often the shoulders on your suit coats and other jackets are very slopped, whereas the shoulder line on this coat appears quite flat. Is this a conscious difference?
Thanks.
Yes, in that it’s from a maker (Gieves & Hawkes) that would naturally do this more structured, square shoulder. There’s more padding in there, as with most English tailors.
I quite like it for an obviously sharp, military piece like this, but can see how others would prefer something softer and more sloped.
Interesting that you mention you wouldn’t wear this with jeans. Do you have any recommendations for a coat that you’d wear with jeans and “upwards” on the formality scale? Sort of like the high/low principle for outerwear but the reverse of what you suggested on that post so that now the coat would be the high element of the outfit.
Interesting question.
Yes, I think a coat that was more softly structure and perhaps in a more casual cloth would work.
Eg a pea coat like this but much more softly structured, and perhaps without embroidery etc, would work with jeans. Also with a more casual style, like a raglan-sleeved coat.
And on casual cloths, anything in a tweed (like my Liverano coat) or another largely patterned, non-formal material (greens, browns, tans)
Granted this won’t be to everyone’s taste, but I would actually love a coat like this with some fairly ‘dark’ cream/ivory buttons to wear with pale trousers or indigo denim and some white sneakers.
The change of buttons really has transformed this coat, Simon. Just goes to show how great an effect the individual details of a garment can make to the overall impression.
Apart from matching the embroidery on this coat, would you ever consider black buttons with navy cloth?
Yes, black can look good on navy. But personally I’d probably only have it on a coat if I worked in a professional environment and would be wearing it with black shoes most of the time.
Great idea to do follow ups for some of these big bespoke commissions. For me this is definitely better with the new buttons. It looks magnificent. How about the legendary Cifonelli suede blazer next? Before my next trip to Paris…
I love the new buttons, Simon! I put identical buttons on a pea coat years ago and I haven’t since found anything I like better for subsequent pea coats.
I must say, I did prefer the old buttons, but I can see your reasons for changing them. The coat itself of course looks as excellent as ever.
Considering this is quite a unique design has Davide Taub thought about running a RTW line.
(aka Patrick Grant and Debenhams, Richard James and John Lewis etc)
Good article, the ‘age’ articles are always interesting. Agree on the buttons for daily wear – the use of brown (vs. black or blue) is an excellent choice – the black too utilitarian, the blue too invisible. Some comments point to colour balance of the image – there are many forms of still image post manipulation apps and programs – suggest 5 – 10 minutes with one of these should offer colour correction to the correct hue (accepting that various devices have differing looks but generally this is a matter of light/dark rather than colour balance). Also is the photographer using lens filters (UV, polaroid etc.) that might also be affecting light and colour balance.
It may be the lighting in this new set of photos but the chest pocket is really sticking out to me. 100% agreed that the coat would have been better without. Such a magnificent piece otherwise!
I need to go against the grain but find the coat pretentious with the sleeve embellishments.
The basic cut of this coat is superb and the button change is a good thing.
That said, the embroidery renders it unwearable. Moves like this are the antithesis of ‘Permanent Style’ and are always faux pas that come back to haunt.
Thanks David, but as I said I haven’t found that at all. Five years of wear and the embroidery has never been a restriction – in fact, as noted, it’s rarely brought up
Beautiful! I’d love to have a pea coat made like this, though my vintage pea coat from the 50’s fits incredibly well through the chest and waist the lapels are floppy, have a tendency to fold the other way and don’t hang nice with the coat open. Wish I could afford it 🙁
Hi Simon! I love it with the new buttons! Incredible how a small detail makes such a huge difference… Would you mind sharing the price? Also, apart from G&H, what other tailor would you recommend for a pea coat? Would you stick to British or consider Italians as well? Thanks!
Sure, it was £3925 back in 2013. Might have to check what it would be today.
As mentioned higher up in the comments, I’d consider Italian as well, though it would be something much softer.
I think Davide charges more like £5000 now (inc. VAT).
The coat is so awesome and color was cool i love this coat men look so handsome to wear this coat
Hi Simon,
This has inspired me to commission my first bespoke piece! Recently I had a grey 3 piece suit made, but I chickened out of bespoke as I could not justify the price. I don’t wear suits apart from special occasions. A winter coat however is something I can justify and this peacoat is amazing.
Before I commissioned my mtm suit I made sure I was suit literate, and I found loads of resource online guiding me through what decisions I should have considered before visiting my tailor. With coats I feel even more out of my depth.
What would you say are the things I should have considered carefully about my new coat before visiting my tailor, and what are the do’s and don’ts of over costs like the peacoat and bridge oat?
I’m am considering Stewart Christie co or Peter Johnston here in Edinburgh.
If you have any advice, I would readily listen.
Nice.
I’d say the key thing to consider is design – length, number of buttons, button position. Images to show a tailor will help tremendously there
Simon,
What are your thoughts on similar angled, welted hip pockets but on a longer overcoat? It seems convenient and comfortable; but I have only seen them on US Naval Officers’ coats (with a pass through which seems neat). Is there a reason that this combination seems as common as hens’ teeth?
-hugh
Chicago
I think it’s just that they look quite casual, and perhaps not that in line with the proportions of a longer coat?
Hello Simon,
This is a true jewel. I don’t get tired of watching these pictures again and again.
It seems from the basting that there are shoulder pads. Is that correct?
Did you choose to do the fitting on a jacket or on a sweater? Since the jacket has already some shoulder padding in contrast to truly natural shoulders of a sweater I guess that an overcoat can’t perfectly fit with both.
Best,
Thomas
Yes the pea coat had shoulder pads – and yes it was designed to fit over a tailored jacket primarily.
You’re right, there’s always a little compromise with the fit of a coat if it’s intended to wear over both tailoring and knitwear, and I tend to have those, plus one or two that are more casual and really only worn over knitwear (often raglan sleeved coats)
Love the fit of this, the sharpness of the cut and the way the collar looks great however the coat is buttoned. It seems like Davide Taub brings thoroughly modern touches to his garments, while retaining the quality of tailoring you would expect from Savile Row. I must say, I also prefer the toned down look of the horn buttons vs the original brass. I’m looking to have a pea coat made and would only wear it for casual / dress down office wear (not over tailoring). I think you mentioned you might not go with the exterior breast pocket under the lapel and might go for a more conventional and heavier cloth if having it made again. I will be living in the North of Scotland and Moscow – both of which vary from warm to bloody freezing. For casual use (but still cut dramatically) and loving the clean collars of both this and the Edward Sexton great coat, what would be your advice on cloth, weight and maker?
If you want it to deal with that kind of weather, then I’d say you need an overcoat, not a pea coat. So something below the knee, but not necessarily as dramatic as the Sexton coat. Cloth 25oz or above, and cashmere if you can afford it as it will be warmer again.
As to maker, look here and around the web for different styles and see which you like best
Are these the same buttons The Lining Company sell?
Yes
Where would I be able to find similar buttons? I see that The Lining Company have very similar looking ones, but they’re a tad smaller than the standard buttons on a pea coat. Would that still look good?
No, I’d make sure to get the right size Tim
I’d be fascinated to know how much you wear this, Simon.
While one would instinctively rotate suits and wear a different one each day, I presume one has fewer overcoats and therefore you wear this much more often (and, of course, you wear it for less time each day)? I’d certainly be tempted to wear it most days at the moment – but would that shorten the longevity of the coat?
Amd of course, the entire point about am overcoat is that it protects you from the weather – but how do you protect *the coat* from the weather?
Hi Alex,
I don’t wear it a lot, but that’s really down to my particular circumstances – having a lot of clothes, trying things for this site, and having designed a ready-made coat a couple of years ago with Private White (the Bridge Coat).
But in general yes, overcoats get worn more often, just not for the whole year. And it would in theory shorten the longevity, but you can’t be too precious with clothes in that way. Wear them when you will enjoy doing so. With a suit or shoes, you want to aim for every other day, so they rest and fully dry out, but that’s not the case with coats.
S
Thank you Simon.
I must say, one of the joys of this site is that even posts that are years old remain relevant and the comment threads active. 🙂
Pleased to hear it Alex. I always want it to be a body of work, a reference, perhaps a lake that can be dipped into at any time – rather than a social media-style steam
Simon, I love this peacoat. Lately the piece I’ve been wearing the most is the off the rack No. 2 jacket from Anderson and Sheppard in a moleskin. It occurred to me that it would make a beautiful, and very different, peacoat.
In your opinion, do you think it would be better to work with them or with Anderson and Shepard on a bespoke coat? I suppose it’s part of a larger question of how do you know which tailor is right for which project?
Thanks!
Hey Julian,
For a design project like that, in my experience it is absolutely crucial that the tailor has already made something similar before, that you can at least see, and ideally try on. For that reason I’d recommend Davide at Gieves, unless A&S have one that I’ve not seen
Has it faded with wear? It looks a refined but more casual colour in the latest images. It looks much bluer and lighter than in your 4th post about the coat – where it looks midnight blue, almost black. I know the change in buttons make a huge difference to the formality but the colour difference in the material is definitely noticeable.
No, I think it’s just the photography, it hasn’t really faded