What can I say about PS Oxford cloth at this point? I've gone through the reasons I like it so many times, most obviously in posts introducing the blue, striped and white versions.
So this time I thought it might be good to focus on what customers say - as a way to launch this new, pink iteration (cloth and shirts).
I recently emailed a few hundred customers, as part of a process seeking feedback. It was the second half of a plan that began with last year’s readership survey. Unsurprisingly, a lot of them had strong opinions, and welcomed an opportunity to share them.
Here's what they had to say about the oxfords.
OZ: “I've bought your Oxford fabrics for shirts and I enjoy them very much - the pink one is currently being made by Luca in Naples. The fabric quality and feel is a lot better than any other Oxford I have had (rtw, mtm or bespoke).”
NM: “The PS product I've enjoyed the most is the Oxford shirting. I must have washed the light blue one (the first one I got) more than fifty times and it's become ever softer, while still holding its strength. The weight also means it wrinkles less. The texture and colours are understated, yet they’re interesting enough that others have praised them.”
AL: “I have the Oxford cloth (striped and blue): it's very versatile so I can wear it in formal, semi-formal and casual occasions. They’re not too hard, as oxfords usually are (and therefore more comfortable) and are rough enough for casual matching,”
RGA: “I love the texture of the cloth, how it drapes - and perhaps at a more emotional level it is a cloth/shirt that I think will last for years and fray in a beautiful way, contrary to how my very expensive [business shirts] just get destroyed.”
MH: “Favourite piece: my light blue Oxford cloth OCBD shirt. Always a pleasure to wear. Gets softer each time I do.”
NF: “The cut and style are EXACTLY what I was looking for, but unable to find for a long time. I have many custom-made shirts which are wonderful for wearing a suit, but my day-to-day wardrobe has dramatically changed over the years. My "uniform" now is a sport coat, smart denim or slacks, casual shoes (chukkas, chelsea boot, etc.) and one of your shirts (the oxford or everyday denim). They just perfectly do the job where my custom finer cloth shirts would not.”
Nice, right? I was particularly pleased that people picked up on the things I really wanted from the cloth - something versatile enough for work and weekend, and which got better and better with age.
There were a few people who didn’t like it too. Primarily because of the weight, as it is heavier than most dress shirtings. I wear mine 10 months of the year in the UK, but in a tropical climate that might be reduced to less than half the year.
And the fit of all the shirts is a little slim, which won’t work for everyone. Unfortunately we can’t afford to do multiple fits, but there is of course the cloth to send to a shirtmaker, for a more personal fit.
Today’s article is intended to let everyone know the pink PS oxford is finally available. It’s been on the site for a while as a cloth, but we received the finished shirts from Naples this week as well.
I’ve always worn a lot of pink shirts, and I think the reason is that they have both formal and informal associations.
On the one hand, pink is quite a corporate colour: a common sight with a grey or navy suit, and probably the most common colour after blue and white.
On the other, it is a colour, and has Ivy associations that make me picture it with an olive shetland sweater and khakis.
The PS pink oxford feels especially Ivy-appropriate because of the slubbier white yarn used in the weave, which gives it that irregular and washed-out feel.
As a result, I wear my pink oxford with a navy jacket and grey flannels, but also with jeans, as shown here.
It’s lovely against the grey herringbone of my Anthology tweed jacket, and with the faded blue of my old Levi’s (above).
And a navy knit, like the geelong from Harley below, is just as nice as a navy blazer would be.
I also find that while brown-suede shoes are the safe choice, black loafers also work nicely - especially with grey trousers or a grey suit.
Below are two selfies from the Lockdown Looks post, the right of which shows a very similar outfit to the one above, but with black ‘Luna’ slippers from Baudoin & Lange.
The left-hand photo also shows that burgundy cordovan (here, Alden full-strap loafers) is nice with the pink and darker denim. Plus that green shetland.
The pink oxfords are made with the same rolling collar as the other PS shirts, the same body fit, and the same quality - in Naples, with hand-sewn sleeves, collar, buttons and buttonholes.
If anyone is unfamiliar with the PS Oxford cloth in general, here is a brief summary:
- The PS Oxford project was born out of a frustration with the lack of robust, authentic oxford cloths available for bespoke.
- The bespoke shirting market still focuses on dress shirts, and this natural-feeling cloth isn’t available. So we worked with Italian mill Canclini to make one.
- We wanted: heavier weight and thicker yarn, to make it more comfortable and soften with age; and a subtle variation in the blue/white yarns that leads to that nubby, natural appearance.
- The texture comes from using a short-staple cotton, so the weft of our PS Oxford is single-ply 10-count.
- But in the warp we used two fine yarns (both of them two-ply 90-count), instead of another single ply.
- This keeps the thickness and character, but also avoids some of the downsides of short-staple cotton, such as pilling.
For everyone else, if you're interested, the shirts are available on the PS Shop site here. Looking forward to hearing what all those existing customers think of the new colour.
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Simon
What size in the RTW would you take (I am pretty much exactly same size as you I think, c. 6.1 and a size 40 (ish) chest)
I take a Medium. I would strongly suggest measuring a shirt you already own, though, and comparing them to these measurements. It’s always the safest way to tell. Not least because guys just like their shirts (and indeed a lot of clothes) to fit differently.
Also, keep in mind that the oxfords will shrink a little (2-3%) over time.
Perfect! Two questions Simon, if i may:
1) Perhaps an unfair question, but which of the PS Oxfords would you say is the most versatile? I am in the fortunate position of building a wardrobe from scratch and am trying to buy some quality essentials.
2) I seem to recall that you take a Medium? I have a 39 inch chest – same as you, i believe – and typically take the same size as you. However, i see that the Medium has a 108 cm chest, which i think would be too big for me. However, you say that there is some shrinkage from washing. Therefore, do you find the Medium fits you well, post wash? There is a large difference in measurements between sizing, and it would be great in the future if you could offer a few additional sizes.
Thanks!
1) Definitely the plain blue. Goes with absolutely everything, from battered jeans to serge, from a navy blazer to a vintage leather jacket. I wear it more than any other colour by far.
2) Yes, I find a Medium fits me well. I actually have a RTW one that I wear too, because the fit is so good. I would recommend going with that, washing and wearing it three or four times, and seeing how it does. You can always use darts to reduce the body size, but I doubt you’ll have to.
Noted on additional sizes. There is of course always the cloth as well, if you wanted to have something made.
Many thanks for such clear answers, Simon.
Just a quick follow up. The shirt arrived today and i am extremely happy with it. It is currently a touch too large around the waist, but this should be fine after a few washes/wears. This will certainly be a go-to shirt for years to come. Next purchase will be the blue striped version!
Oh good, thanks John, that’s really nice to hear
Hi Simon,
Slightly off topic but what’s the cloth on the grey herringbone jacket in the first picture? hoe versatile do you find it?
It’s Holland & Sherry tweed – see article on the whole suit here
And the answer is, very versatile. It would be among my top 1 or 2 recommendations for a casual (non-business) jacket
Hi Simon,
love the jacket. In the article you are referring to, you are wearing black loafers with the tweed suit. Makes sense as the grey color is basically a result of the alternating black & white from the herringbone. Do you also wear brown shoes with the jacket+jeans and the suit?
Asking cause I almost never wear black shoes with jeans.
Thanks!
Yes, I’d wear brown shoes as the default with the suit – the black is an exception. And also yes, I’d pretty much always wear brown here with the jeans. Usually brown suede in the form of a loafer, boot or derby
Simon
I can’t find – but have you ever written about crepe soled shoes? Would a paid be good for winter commuting walks to work (c. 1hr?)
I haven’t really, you’re right. They are generally pretty casual, which is probably the main reason. For most shoes we would cover, I would recommend a rubber sole (thinner on a smarter shoe, thicker on a less smart one)
Hello – I recommend avoiding crepe soled shoes in Winter …the sole will wear out with use and become extremely slippery in wet/icy conditions….and consequently dangerous. I learned this the very painful way.
I have a pink oxford shirt already and love it but it is showing its age.
The PS pink oxford is lovely Simon, exactly the right shade. I may have to see if my wallet can stretch far enough for one when the time comes to replace my current shirt.
How is it showing its age Peter? Stains or fraying? The latter would add to its appeal for me, personally
Fraying, which I also enjoy.
Oh good.
The Anthology suit jacket looks to be very versatile.
Would it have been better with patch side pockets ?
It would have been about as versatile I think. The pattern and the texture mean that I don’t think the addition of patch pockets makes as much of a difference.
Would be interested to learn how you arrive at Small, Medium , Large Etc size measurements .
I.e. where does this standard derive from and how much do you tinker with the standard to customise to a PS size .
I often hear MTM people talk about being able to do a lot with the ‘block’ to ensure a better fit then RTW but would be interested to learn the actual mechanics .
This world certainly help clarify why And how you get better with MTM over RTW.
Maybe a future video ?
With the shirts, it’s a question of starting with what a factory normally makes (which will usually closely follow what is effectively an industry standard) and then tweaking based on style or customer feedback.
On MTM, the block they’re referring to is something similar to this RTW sizing. And the making adjustments from it – eg 2cm more on the waist, 1cm more on the left arm, etc.
Perhaps an interesting video, yes. In a factory
Hi Simon,
Any idea when you will start offering the chambray fabric?
I have the ps oxford cloth. Lovely pieces!
Oh good.
It should be another two weeks hopefully. Do email the Support team if you want to be on the waiting list, and get an alert when its available – [email protected]
Simon — Would you ever consider doing a run of your oxford fabric in a solid cream (i.e., the same as the background in the blue stripe)? I think I recall seeing in the comments of an old post that you had considered cream along the way before going with the white oxford. I’m sure that was the right way to prioritize — I’ve just has a shirt made in the white oxford, and I’ve found it to be, as advertised, a very useful way to combine a smart color with more casual texture. But I think a solid cream could be great as well.
I haven’t really considered it to be honest, no. But thanks for the input – it does make me do so
Also a lover of the PS oxford cloth, eagerly awaiting the pink and the striped shirts that are currently made by Simone Abbarchi.
May I also suggest another colour? I always found a toned down, muted purple very versatile.
Best regards,
Manuel
You will forgive me for saying it, but l find the concept of a fused collar on a button down shirt difficult to grasp.
The tradition is for a collar such as this the be unlined; just two pieces of cotton sewn together. Correct tie space and button placement lead to a gentle bowing out around the tie (if being worn), with the points collapsing down onto the body of the shirt just above the buttons.
Even a collar which is lined, but unfused, will be a compromise on this. Once fused, it ceases to be true to its origins.
I think that’s a little narrow in outlook, David, as button downs have been and are happily worn outside that very American tradition
Traditions, like much in menswear, should also be understood but not blindly followed. I’ve worn both and prefer this style, and so do many readers
Then we must agree to differ Simon. Worth noting that Drakes, probably the most recognised maker of OCBDs in the UK, continue that very American tradition.
Thanks David, absolutely. No rights or wrongs.
Drake’s is rather an outlier among English shirtmakers in that respect; and I think it’s fair to say, is pretty international in its style these days.
Thanks. Which other British shirt makers that favour fusing their collars would you highlight?
There aren’t others that favour fusing, but rather those that favour lining. And that includes most makers, from T&A to Budd to bespoke makers.
Thanks. I have Drakes shirts which are unfused but have interlining. Do I conclude from this that fusing is something the Italian shirt maker you use favours, if it is clearly not something the Brits do?
Yes it is, though it’s nearly all Italian makers not just one
What maker would you most recommend for bespoke or made to measure shirts in the original Brooks Brothers style (ie with an unlined collar).
I adore the Drake’s button downs shirts (I have 5 of them) – and while I appreciate the collar you’ve worked on with Luca Avitabile – I’d love to have something similar made bespoke (preferably in PS oxford shirting).
Good question. To be honest, I’ve never asked a shirtmaker to make a collar without any lining, so I’m not sure who would be best.
I would look for a maker you like in every other aspect of cut and make, and then ask them if they’re able to make that kind of collar.
Dear Simon,
Is there any way to apply lower (currently 16%) German VAT rate for orders shipped to Germany?
I’m just checking, but I don’t believe that’s how VAT within the EU works. You pay the VAT rate of the country from which you buy the goods. So UK retailers charge 20% across the EU, even though the VAT rate in different countries varies. VAT in Hungary, for example, is 27%, and 17% in Luxembourg.
It’s one of the central planks of EU free trade, reducing administration costs through differing VAT rates.
I am not sure how it works, but the Rake or Amazon change they VAT rate depending on the customer’s country.
Interesting. They do for Germany, but not for Luxembourg or Hungary despite those having different VAT rates.
I’ll look into it more. Thanks for bringing it up.
If a company sells a lot of goods to private customers, i.e. non “taxable persons” in VAT speak, who live in a particular EU Member State then the supplier may be required to register for VAT in the “destination” country under the VAT “distance selling” rules. That can mean a supplier might be registered for VAT, or not, in various Member States depending on their sales to private customers in those countries. It sounds like some of these suppliers are registered in various countries, but others aren’t, and that’ll be based on their sales values to private customers in each country. So the general rule is that goods are taxed where the supplier belongs, but the distance selling rules can change that answer.
As it’s the supplier’s responsibility to get it right I’d be minded to go with what the websites tell you, and let them deal with the tax authority if it’s wrong.
Thanks, that’s very helpful.
In the UK, the threshold for VAT registration is around £85k, so if it’s similar in Germany, a company would have to be selling more than that to have to register for VAT there? Understandable for a large company like Amazon I guess.
Broadly yes, although the distance selling thresholds are set separately to the general registration thresholds (the latter are often nil for “overseas” suppliers not making distance sales). The last time I looked the DS thresholds were generally €35,000 (although could be €100,000 in some countries, including sales into the uk).
Rejoice at the fact that I spend my days worrying about things like this, so that normal folk don’t have to!
As one of those people, thank you
Hi Simon, nice shirt. I have ordered the PS Oxford cloths in white and blue, and also both everyday denims. I’m looking forward to receiving them. Would you consider an off-white/cream color and a light grey color for future PS Oxford cloths?
We might, yes. I think the next will be a dusty, pale yellow though. Others have requested a cream, so we might look at that next.
I’d like to add my voice to requests for cream, though for me, a cold version. I’m not a fan of yellow at all, including yellowish creams. I’d also be interested in grey. A grey and white stripe would be good too.
As a next colour, might I recommend a red and white ticking stripe or even a different take on a blue and white? I get that a few people are requesting yellows and purples, but I do worry on your behalf that there may be a much lower demand in reality for these more unusual colours!
I just realised that the shirt sold out while my tailor was on holiday… Any chance of a restock some time soon? A shame I missed it, it looks absolutely beautiful!
Hey Christian. You mean the cloth right? The shirts are still in stock.
The cloth should be back in November – do email [email protected] if you want a reminder then that it’s available
Cheers
Wanted to add in response to the potential yellow oxford cloth, despite unusual and less demanded for, is something I have long wished to be made into a happy weekend shirt for that particular mood where blue, white or pink isn’t happy enough.
Occasionally come across that right shade of yellow plain or striped shirting but only available in a poplin weave, hence less suitable to wear with jeans.
It is coming Jun… watch this space (or email [email protected] to get on the waiting list)
Simon, do you expect to have a restock of these and/or the pink oxford shirts in size XL this year? If yes, would you kindly provide an estimate as to when? Thanks.
Hi. Yes, we will have cloth in a couple of weeks, and shirts in December. Generally, emailing [email protected] is the best way to get updates or ask for an alert when stock is in. Cheers
1) Dear Simon! You said before that the collar height on the RTW shirts is 4.2cm. Is this just measuring the collar band itself? That means some extra height from the fold of the cloth?
2) Does anybody know the current bespoke prices from Luca Avitabile when the customer is providing the (PS-) cloth?
Thanks, Kind regards, Alex
1 – Yes that’s right
2 – I haven’t checked recently actually
Would you say the shirt is too heavy for being a summer shirt (30C)? I presume it is, but would like your thoughts.
Yes I’d say so. Though it does depend a little on how warm you get generally
Hi Simon,
Am i correct to say all your oxford shirts are made of 250 gram cotton?
I have some Anglo ones that are made of 172g which I find sturdy so it seems like your oxfords are even studier and heavier?
Yes that’s right Andy. I don’t think they feel heavy particularly – I continue to wear them into the summer. But they are heavier than those Anglo ones.
Hi Simon – do you think a grey herringbone jacket like this would work well with Ecru Jeans?
Yes, absolutely
Simon,
Is there a little fusing in your plackets?
Yes. As with the collar and cuffs, it’s the look I like. It adds a tiny bit of body to the placket, and stops it collapsing so much. Also helps support the collar
Cool. Always wondered. Is it the same stiffness throughout?
Throughout the collar? Yes usually it is, though some makers such as D’Avino put less in the middle of the collar – see here
As in the same stiffness in the cuffs and placket as the collar.
Ah, I see. In the cuffs and collar yes, usually less in the placket
which tie would suit Grey flannels, navy jacket and a pink shirt?
Lots of different things I think: navy, dark grey, green, probably a light blue too. Perhaps black or brown depending on which shoes you’re wearing
Thanks, many options then. And I think my shoes will be a dark suede tassel loafer? So I migth consider the brown tie or the navy?
Yes certainly, and the other colours apart from perhaps black. Do have a look at the ensemble yourself though (in a mirror or laid out on a bed) and see which you like together the most