The next stage in our Guide to Shirts – after the recent pieces on collars and cuffs – is to compare different approaches brands take to the styles of their shirts.
There are a few different aspects of this, including:
- the cut (wide, slim; short, long)
- the structure (fused or floating)
- the make (steps of handwork, seams and processes)
- and, the details (pockets, buttons, pleats)
In this article, we’ll look at the structure: what the different options are, their various advantages and disadvantages, and the traditions of using them.
There are two basic types of interlining, which are used in the collar, collar band, cuffs and placket of the shirt.
These are defined not by what they’re made of, but by how they’re attached to the shirt: they are either fused (glued) to the outer surface, or stitched around the outer edges (but ‘floating’ in the middle).
There are different types of each lining, including stiffer and softer options, brushed or not. But most importantly, there is also a big variety in weight – from roughly 50g all the way up to 400g.
So a collar that feels like it has no lining at all, might actually have a very lightweight fusing – so light that it effectively disappears after a few washes.
And while floating lining is often seen as being heavier than fusing, it doesn’t have to be. It depends more on which weight you choose. (Below, Fiorenzo of D’Avino talks me through his different weights in his Neapolitan workshop.)
Let’s look at floating linings first.
This is the more traditional method of adding structure and shape to a shirt. Historically these linings would have been linen, but today they’re usually cotton.
A floating lining is cut to the same shape of the collar, band or cuff, and sewn to the shirt fabric around the edges. So it doesn’t move around inside, but you can feel it as a separate layer if you pinch the collar in two hands.
One advantage of this over a fused lining is that it’s easier to create a thicker, stiffer collar, which is the key reason many traditional shirtmakers use it. But in lighter weights, it’s also softer than a fused lining, making it nice on casual shirts.
The fact that the lining can move independently of the shirt fabric also makes it more comfortable – because of the collar, but also because of the collar band, which is constructed in the same way and of course is the part that sits against the neck.
A disadvantage of a floating collar is that it is harder to make. Fused linings can simply be glued to the collar fabric and then cut around. Indeed, most shirt factories can’t make floating collars for this reason – having the fusing to reinforce the collar as it’s made is an integral part of their manufacturing process.
However, none of this means that it a floating collar is always superior. Yes, it is more traditional, harder to do, and only the better or bespoke makers do it. But at PS we know to dig a little deeper than that. None of those necessarily make it better – we’re interested in the outcomes, not the methods or traditions.
The other small disadvantage of a floating collar is that it is harder to iron. You need to work from the point and edges of the collar towards the middle – and do so carefully – to avoid wrinkles.
But as with other quality menswear, this is a pretty poor excuse for avoiding them. If you can’t be bothered to iron properly, use shoe trees, or hang a sodden coat on a hanger, then frankly you don’t deserve nice things.
Fused linings are a relatively new addition to shirts, having become available in the 1930s and undergone various revolutions in quality during the 20th century.
Just as there is a range of weights, there is also a range of qualities, with the best being woven and the cheapest being composites, made in a similar way to fibreboard. Unfortunately, the cheaper end of this spectrum has a habit of giving fused collars a bad name.
The vast majority of shirts in the world today use some type of fused interlining. But some of the best shirtmakers also use fused linings. So while most of the big names – Charvet, Siniscalchi, Turnbull & Asser – only use floating, there are those such as Kiton or D’Avino that use fusing (or some combination of the two).
The reason is partly historical. English makers use primarily floating linings because they traditionally made smarter shirts, originating in formal clothing. Those collars used to be starched, and some even used two layers of lining to achieve a desired stiffness. Even today, their collars are largely designed to be worn with ties, and with suits.
Those stiff collars fell out of favour quicker in places like Naples, where culture and climate encouraged lighter-weight and more casual dress.
But the importance of these traditions can be exaggerated. Certainly, they’re not as important with shirts as they are with tailoring.
Just as big a factor is the availability of machinery. Naples retains a lot of handwork in its clothes because it did not industrialise as early or as widely, and took up fusings because they were cheap and easy – no machinery required.
“A century ago, shirts had much more (and often better) handwork, because labour was cheap. Today labour is expensive, and machinery cheaper,” comments shirtmaker Wil Whiting. “I was recently lucky enough to see a 100-year-old shirt first hand, and the delicacy of the handwork was incredible.”
Still, while a buttonhole machine might only cost £5,000, that’s a lot for a small shirtmaker in a Neapolitan suburb, so the methods remain.
So what are the advantages of fused linings? Why do some of the best makers use them?
One key advantage is that a fused collar moulds better. If you wear a fused collar without a tie, it moulds over the course of the day, shaping away from your chin and tucking under the lapels of the jacket. This ‘S’ shape means the collar will not collapse beneath the jacket, as many floating collars do.
And with a tie, a fused collar looks sharper. Indeed, mainstream shirt brands sometimes use fused collars for dress shirts, floating ones for casual shirts: the opposite of the division of traditions outlined above.
Personally, I see the advantage of floating linings more in casual shirts. If you’re having a casual flannel shirt made, to wear with jeans and boots, then you’re more likely to want the collar and cuff to be soft. “I use very lightweight floating linings in casual linen shirts for that reason,” says Whiting. “You want them to be soft and wrinkle, but still have something in them.”
I’ve also never noticed a difference in comfort between fused and floating lining. I had my shirts made at Turnbull & Asser for several years, and have used others such as Emma Willis, Budd and Charvet. I prefer my fused ones.
The other argument for floating collars is longevity: eventually any fusing will fall apart and start to bubble, where no floating one will. This is true, but with any decent fusing, that will take many years. I’ve had some shirts for more than a decade and never had this issue.
There is of course the option of no lining at all, which is most popular in America but by no means exclusive to it.
I have tried this and it’s noticeably more comfortable. But you lose a lot of the control of the collar, and how it sits within a jacket. That’s fine with a very casual shirt, or one you never intend to wear with tailoring, but probably too much of a disadvantage otherwise.
And then there are combinations of the different techniques. For example, some makers such as D’Avino use a collar construction that – they think – combines the best of both worlds. They have a floating interlining throughout the collar, and then a fused section just in the two ends (shown below). This also means the section that is theoretically more comfortable (the floating) is in the part closer to the neck.
Plus bespoke makers use all manner of combinations to suit their customers’ needs.
One London maker I spoke to for this article said they fuse an extra layer of lining to their floating one, for some clients, to create greater stiffness. One customer wants even stiffer and sharper, and so has two thick layers fused to each other and to the shirt. Another has sections just fused to the tips (similarly to D’Avino) because he always forgets to use collar stays.
In the end, the decision is about outcomes – what you want and how best to achieve it.
All fused linings are not cheap, and do not bubble after a few years. All floating linings are not heavy and stiff. They can be used for different aims, and indeed combined in various ways.
Pay some respect to the rules, by taking the time to understand them. And then make your own decision.
another good article speaking of shirts has anyone had experence of Frank Rostron shirt makers in Manchester?
Not me Ian, no
What structure do you use on the shirt offerings on the PS Shop? Does it vary between the different shirts, especially the button ups vs the polos? And is this structure reflective of Luca Avitabile’s standard structure?
Good point. We use a lightweight fusing in collar and cuffs, as I like it for the reasons mentioned. And yes, that’s standard for Luca
Another great article on shirts. Thank you so much.
I would never have known Fiorenzo were it not for you Simon and the wonderful articles you provide to your readers. It was lovely to see him being referenced again in this particular article. Fiorenzo has since made a dozen or so shirts for me. Every one have been works of art and an utter joy to wear.
“I have tried this and it’s noticeably more comfortable. But you lose a lot of the control of the collar, and how it sits within a jacket. ”
You say this like it’s a downside. I like the way an unlined shirt collar moves. It’s expressive, kind of like a good tie. If the collar is a button-down, the collar stays up nicely under a jacket, but changes shape some. Even if I leave the collar unbuttoned, the collar doesn’t misbehave much. Of course, I am talking about oxford cloth, and pretty substantial oxford cloth no less.
Thanks, and yes I can see that. I guess it’s always going to be a partially a question of taste as to whether it’s good or bad – and the style you’re after
Really great discussion. It seems there’s very little to choose between floating v. fusing. There’s a trade-off in the collar moulding v. being softer, but that seems subtle. Another small trade-off in ease of ironing v. longevity. Beyond that, I’m not seeing any feature that can’t be produced either way. Seems like one should try both, and choose what one likes better; or defer to what one’s shirt maker knows best.
The choice isn’t between fused and floating but among different points on a spectrum of stiffness. That latter choice is real and significant. A collapsed collar under a jacket makes the outfit look instantly sloppy, and collar abrasion is one of the few points of comfort in clothing that I actually do care about.
I’m curious here: do you prioritize an order from the list below when you evaluate the details of a shirt?
– the cut (wide, slim; short, long)
– the structure (fused or floating)
– the make (steps of handwork, seams and processes)
– and, the details (pockets, buttons, pleats)
It seems to me that many prioritize at the cut and details, over structure and make, simply because they are the most visible.
I do understand of course if your evaluation process is not so linear. Ultimately it’s the whole of the shirt that matters. But you have also made clear how important the collar of a shirt is (structure). Hence the question.
Thank you as always.
Miles
Hi Miles,
Interesting question. My first reaction is that no element is more important – I have to like all of them, and I consider all of them. But, you’re right that often people ignore the make and the structure.
I’d say the cut and the structure are the most important, as they do make the biggest difference to the fundamental look of the shirt. But I’d want the others too if I could!
S
Hi Simon, interesting article on some technical aspects of Shirts.
When it comes to fused linings I am wondering since some time which influence the temperature of the Iron has on the longevity of the fusing.
Would you be so kind to add some details about the kind of glue that is used, if it is temperature sensitive and if this needs to be considered when choosing the ironing temperature?
Thanks, Björn
Hi Bjorn,
The glue is certainly temperature sensitive when it is first applied, as it is heat that allows it to fuse to the shirt material.
However, it shouldn’t really matter what temperature you iron your shirt at yourself, if that’s what you mean. A good fusing will not be affected no matter what temperature you use (on a home iron)
S
Thanks Simon, that was actually what I was referring to. I managed to destroy a shirt that way (and definitely one of my more expensive pieces). Anyway, good to hear that this incident seem to be an exception, and this won‘t repeat with my PS shirt.
Cheers, Björn
No, it shouldn’t.
As a general rule, it is worth being aware of temperature on irons and using only the hottest that is needed to get an effective press – but mostly because there’s a risk of making material shiny, particularly linen and wool
“If you can’t be bothered to iron properly, use shoe trees, or hang a sodden coat on a hanger, then frankly you don’t deserve nice things.”
I think this statement is too harsh. Putting shoe trees in your shoes takes seconds; hanging a sodden coat even less. But ironing collars and cuffs with a floating interlining can be a pain in the backside and takes far more time than ironing fused ones. As someone who irons my own shirts and has a variety of both types, I can tell you that it does take a lot longer to iron the ones with floating interlinings, and I wouldn’t blame people for avoiding floating for that reason. The degree of difficulty does vary though according to cloth weight, interlining thickness, and probably how well made the shirts were in the first place.
Hey Jim,
Perhaps I am being too harsh – it certainly does make a difference. I just get frustrated when people I know use that excuse so much, as a reason to get cheaper clothing that will give far less pleasure in the wearing as well.
With ironing. I had many years in the military and we always ironed with a damp cotton cloth. Prevents scorches,shine and that horrible moment when the iron is sick over your pristine shirt..
Hi Simon. Which kind of collar structure would you recommend if you want to wear the shirt without a tie under an unstructured jacket in the most casual way?
A fused collar is most likely to work best, but if you’re having your shirts made, a light floating lining and collar shape that works – most likely a button down – can also be just as good
Floating, all the way. The unfused construction is more comfortable, natural, and longer lasting. Personally, the naturalness and craftsmanship qualities of clothing are very important to me.
Watching old photographs or films from the 1930’s to the 1950’s (or costume dramas, such as “The Darkest Hour”) I’ve noticed that shirt collars in that period were rather soft. They didn’t look stiff, and due to the softness, the collar points sometimes appeared slightly asymmetric, which, in my opinion, looks just as elegant as a slightly “imperfect” tie or bow-tie knot. Do you possibly know what kind of technique was used in that period in shirtmaking that gave this effect? Another good example of such collar is in the film North by Northwest. You may notice that Cary Grant’s shirt collar is rather soft.
I don’t, though let me ask some people more familiar with clothing of the period.
I would imagine they use a light floating lining – that would have been the norm then, and as noted in the article, such lining can be very soft if light in weight (and not starched – formal collars of the period would have had some starch to maintain their crispness)
Do you know when collar stays, or something analogous, became common?
My shirts are mainly a mixture of various Neapolitan RTW and I find the fused collars of Cesare Attolini to be the best. They’re more comfortable than the stiffer Kiton (which I’m almost certain are floating, BTW, contrary to what you wrote – if you flip up the collars the lining is partially exposed, like on those D’Avino) and I find that they keep their shape better and just look nicer, whether worn with a tie or without. It’s almost a contradiction in that they’re very soft and yet they retain their ‘S’ shape and the points stay down in a manner that one might imagine would require stiffness.
Also, several of mine are around 15-years-old now and have had a lot of wear (I choose them frequently in large part due to the comfort and aesthetics of the collars) and are showing no sign of deterioration.
Thanks Matt, very interesting.
Kiton generally use a mixture of fused and floating, like D’Avino – that’s what I meant by the reference in the article. You can see more on that in my visit to the Kiton shirt workshop with Sebastiano, here.
Thanks Simon. I actually found that article after I commented, when I went looking to ensure that what I said was correct. I had read that Kiton weren’t fused, but I wasn’t aware of the mixed construction.
Aha, cool
Thanks for the detailed post In the first shot, are you wearing brown whole wholecuts?They are beautiful!
Thanks. No, those are my bespoke Gaziano & Girling adelaides – written about here. The full article that shot was taken from is here.
Simon – if one wanted a shirt with more movement across the back would a box pleat or side pleats be the answer or would you suggest something else? Also, I’ve noticed you’ve often suggested not to push a tailor too far beyond their house style. Does this apply to shirt makers as well, i.e. I don’t believe Luca normally goes for such pleats so would requesting them be taking things in a bad direction?
A box pleat would help a little, yes, but so would just making the shoulders a little bigger. A box pleat tends to throw space more into the middle of the back and downwards, rather than higher up.
I would ask Luca or any other shirtmaker what they would recommend. And I’m afraid I don’t know whether Luca makes box pleats, but if he normally doesn’t, you’re right that I wouldn’t push him to do it.
im interested in getting my shirt maker to do non lined collars in the oxfords we use . any comments?
Unlined collars can be great. Soft and very comfortable. Never quite as smart as a lined one, and I’d probably not wear one with a jacket and tie myself, but they work nicely with heavy Oxfords like the PS ones
Is it possible to have an unlined collar made which is not collapsing under the jacket collar without being a button-down?
Certainly, if it’s high enough, so it protrudes a good way above the top of the jacket collar, and the points sit nicely under it.
The problem there of course is that you might not want so high a collar.
As you probably already understand, being lightly fused or being button down does help
The reason I want it unlined is to have a more relaxed look, but a collar this high probably is controversial, because the higher the collar the smarter it is.
True to an extent, yes. If you have a higher neck you can get away with a higher collar – it’s more about proportions than absolutes, if that makes sense
What’s your opinion on a fused lining in the placket? Some argue that it helps stave off collar collapse. I’m wary of it losing shape over time, diminishing the lifespan of the shirt.
I don’t find mine has lost shape at all.
A stiffer placket can help with collar collapse, but in my experience it’s a fairly minor point compared to the cut and structure of the collar. Also, just because something is fused it doesn’t mean it’s any stiffer or stronger than floating – it depends on the relative weights more
Hi Simon,
Thanks for your informative article!
I have a question concerning the cut of the shirts. Are there significant differences in the cut of the shirt(wide, slim; short, long) between different bespoke/MTM shirt makers from different countries (specifically between Italian and English makers)?
Thanks,
Charles
Not really, no Charles. You might find Italian shirts often fitting a little closer, but not universally, and really a reaction to fashions rather than any deep-seated tradition. It’s not like tailoring in that regard
Hi Simon
Are you still looking to expand this series on shirts? You left us hanging with your list above, and I’m eager to hear your perspective on both cut and extra details. Everything else you’ve covered has been great.
Sorry, no it rather got taken over by the new one on knitwear. But thanks for the reminder, I’ll try and pick it up again
What are the “rules” or conventions regarding shirt plackets? Should one e.g. have plackets on casual shirts like OCBD`s and not on formal dress shirts or vice versa – OR is it just down to preference in this modern day and age? 🙂
You’ve got the convention right – and it makes sense. The less there is going on on a shirt, the smarter it will be.
It’s a small thing, but when combined with everything else, it’s the kind of thing that makes a shirt look ‘right’ or a little strange. Like an extreme spread collar shirt in a thick oxford
I’m joining the party late here. I’m having shirts made by a very capable tailor, though I’m having trouble getting the collar right.
I want a “soft” collar and cuffs for my casual shirts (Oxfords, Chambray/Denim, Flannel) and what I’m getting back is something entirely too stiff. I’d like to help her get it right but I could use some assistance explaining what I’m seeking.
I’d like a collar that is soft but not “limp.” Is there a specific fabric/weight interlining to use? Fused or unfused? If fused, is there a certain method used? Many of my collars are button-down; do they even need an interlining?
One of the shirts is being made up with the PS selvedge chambray which is a gorgeous fabric.
Thank you,
Best.
Hey Peter,
They don’t necessarily need an interlining, particularly on a button down. However, I would ask what the lightest interlining she has is – fused or floating, if it’s very light it should be almost unnoticeable. Also, if she mostly uses fused, ask about an interlining that dissolves after washing. Sometimes shirtmakers find it hard to work with no lining, which is where that one comes in
Excellent, thank you! Your site is the best reference I have for these things. Cheers!
Nice to hear Peter, thanks