* Update: Going by the ‘likes’ on Instagram, the outfits currently rank as:
- Anderson & Sheppard
- Cifonelli
- Liverano
- Edward Sexton
- Panico
- Richard Anderson (Do you agree? Join in!) *
These are the six pieces that our six greats of bespoke tailoring made for the Symposium last week in Florence.
As expected, each has a very distinctive style, most clearly seen in the shoulders but also in small things like the opening of the jacket below the button (the foreparts). As always, I’m interested to hear any opinions on your favourite submissions or styles.
The Anderson & Sheppard suit in navy flannel (above and top) has the house’s distinctive belly to the lapel, although as a keen-eyed reader noted, also less drape than commonly.
The trousers have the side fastener on the seam rather than waistband, as I’ve previously noted I prefer, and the mother-of-pearl button that A&S always uses on its rear trouser pockets.
Cifonelli‘s royal-blue DB is very different. By buttoning at the last row and cutting the cloth to open more across the chest, Lorenzo creates room for the shirt and tie akin to most single-breasteds.
The effect is accentuated by having the jacket slightly shorter; this is usually only employed on jackets not suits.
Edward Sexton‘s cream-flannel jacket has the biggest shoulders of the lot, with a slight curve up towards the sleevehead. For a more casual summer jacket like this he also prefers a 4×2 configuration for the buttons (four showing; two buttoned) and jetted pockets.
Striped knitwear from Anderson & Sheppard.
Antonio Panico’s chalk-stripe DB is immediately identifiable by its soft shoulder and ‘shirt’ sleeve. Unlike most English tailors he also runs his front dart all the way to the bottom of the jacket, in this case hiding it cunningly along the line of a stripe.
All shoes suggested for the outfits are from Stefano Bemer.
Richard Anderson‘s suit jacket has perhaps the squarest shoulders of the bunch, with considerable padding and a structured chest. He also cuts a high notch to the lapel and uses a characteristic one-button stance, with relatively open foreparts.
The Liverano tuxedo has the most open foreparts of the lot, however, with a definite sweep away from the waist button that is mirrored in the broad peaked lapels.
The jacket is also cut with a generous chest and is matched with a U-shaped waistcoat.
Very interesting, Simon. I think for those who are new to bespoke especially, it delineates each tailor’s style quite clearly.
People look at suits but they don’t actually see! Now, if you ask Richard Anderson or John Hitchcock if they are simply interchangable with the other cutters in their companies it gets interesting. A house style is therefor a general guide and then beyond that is your cutter’s taste and idiosyncrasies. It’s their personality and, hopefully, a shared philosophy.
Once your tailor nails your favourite fit, lapel shape, shoulder line, pocket position, sleevehead type etc etc, it makes a nonsense of using 10 different tailoring firms. That’s for those who aren’t fussy. (Journalists apart!).
I was interested to see the A & S suit, since I was for many years a customer there. In those days you took what they had to offer or did the other. I believe they are more accommodating now.
In any event the jacket looks far less draped than formerly and ths shoulders look as if they have little if any extension – a marked feature in those days.
All in all a most interesting symposium and feature on the site. Well done.
On the drape point, I think the photos could be a little misleading. There is more drape there than it looks. A&S wanted to make the following reply:
“The jacket was cut by Leon Powell who has been with A&S for 12 years and joined us straight from college where he studied design. He started as a coat maker with one of our most experienced tailors and then went on to apprentice for Mr Hitchcock and then Danny Hall, our Head Cutter. We are very concerned with succession and with handing down our collective skills and Leon is a true Anderson & Sheppard cutter.
We followed your strict instructions and cut for the mannequin and the jacket has the usual amount of drape through the chest. This cannot be seen from the image as drape shows itself with movement. If viewers could touch and hold the jacket, they would notice that there is drape and a good deal of cloth on the chest and on the back.
The beautiful flannel cloth that we chose from Vitale Barberis was a considered choice for the A&S drape cut. We always recommend that the customer choose the heaviest weight of cloth that he is comfortable with. It drapes and falls well and gives a cleaner look without compromising on comfort and ease of movement.”
Interesting, especially in how it demonstrates the importance of presentation: the Sexton is my favourite, but he has done himself no favours with the striped jumper. If he had put a decent shirt and tie on the dummy the effect would be vastly improved. Liverano’s presentation, however, is spot on.
On another point, I just don’t get Neapolitan tailoring allied with heavy chalkstriped flannel: it’s just wrong.
Fantastic post as always Simon. I think the images you’ve utilised are great. I’m a relatively new customer to bespoke so the illustrative and narrative post has been really useful. I cannot help but think that it would have been better that all houses created either a SB or DB. Being a bit selfish, I really wanted to see the A&S in a SB, as most of the time, I see their cut in a DB. Just a thought. Your views?
Yes, I can see how that could have been helpful
I like very much the suits of Anderson & Shepard and Panico (is possible see a frontal picture of the Panico’suit?).
A&S seems more structured and this like me.
Beautifull the dinner jacket of Liverano.
About A & S and Panico double breasteds would be interesting know if ,in case the coat is buttoned to the last,lower, buttons couple,the lapel roll until the buttoning point.
It won’t effectively with A&S, but will with Solito.
Bear in mind that whenever you do this, however, you lose shape through the waist of the jacket – it can only be cut to one point (nothing is truly ‘transformibile’)
Symposium 1 = shoes
Symposum 2 = suits.
Symposium 3= shirts/ ties/ accessories?
I only ask because after the impressive symposia on shoes and suits/jackets, you might be running out of clothing articles to base a symposium on 😉
To add to a previously mentioned comment , I think the comparison would be easier if they all used the same cloth and had gone for a single breasted, notch lapel.
On another point how easy would it be for ‘hight street ‘ retailers to take each style and produce MTM ?
Surely such a move would add to some of the rather bland styles selling on our high streets.
I like how you pointed out, “Unlike most English tailors he [Antonio Panico] also runs his front dart all the way to the bottom of the jacket, in this case hiding it cunningly along the line of a stripe.”
It seems that only Neapolitan tailors cut their jackets this way now. English tailors used to do this. In studying James Bond’s suits, Anthony Sinclair, Dimi Major and Cyril Castle all cut their jackets this way. I’m sure many, if not most, other English tailors also used to use this method before discovering they could have a cleaner front by displacing the dart across the pocket to below the underarm dart. In the case of stripes it makes the suit much cleaner to continue the dart down in front rather than make a side body.
There’s no right and wrong with darts, only the cutter’s preference. Each type of dart has it’s merits. I think Kilgour were still cutting a full-length front dart (last time I took any notice of them). I don’t think bespoke wearers need to worry about darts and seams etc. You’re treading on your tailor’s toes. Leave it to him. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I agree, Mac. Those small things should be left to the tailor. Even things like shoulder construction should be left to the tailor. People shouldn’t go to Richard Anderson and ask for a cut like Anderson & Sheppard’s. What a customer should be able to ask for is the number of buttons they want on the front, and I’ve seen cases where a customer wanted a double-breasted suit with four buttons and got six. And the customer is stuck with it.
Presuming the top two aren’t being used Matt, they could be removed without leaving a mark. Though it depends a little on the cloth and age of the suit
This person wanted a 4×1 like the Sexton jacket above and got a 6×2.
Ah, not much that can be done there then
Matt,remember that the Neapolitan tailoring has always been very anglophile (is not a coincidence if Bebè Rubinacci name his shop “London house”).
The target of Neapolitan tailors was not create a alternative to Saville Row,but a “English style” that worked in the Naples climate and environment.
The Panico suits looks amazing, especially the ‘cut’ of the shoulder.
Lovely post, thanks to PS !
The Cifonelli blazer looks stunning, is it right that this kind of roping shoulder is quite unique ?
Aleksandar
Not unique – many others rope and some with a similar construction. But the Cifonelli look in shoulder and sleeve head is certainly unique
All are beautiful though the A & S, for me, takes first place. The balance and silhouette are a cut above. Something worth pointing out is that four out of six examples are DB. Whilst style always trumps fashion the DB suit currently remains on the fashion periphery with few RTW examples on offer. Those worth looking at are in the more unstructured Italian style. This therefore begs the question – is a good DB suit only truly available through bespoke? Furthermore is bespoke trailing behind current trends or, conversly, does it actually lead the way by presaging future trends (as in LFW)?
DBs certainly gain more from bespoke – it is harder to cut a universal pattern for a DB for RTW.
Hi Simon,
Honestly, at this level of craftsmanship it is really hard, if not impossible, to somehow rate these items just from all but fleeting impressions.
John
I know what you mean John, and as I always say photos can be very misleading. This was not meant as a piece of serious analysis, just a bit of fun
Cifonelli’s shoulder expression is perfectly in proportion with the wide drape of the bellied peaks of the db. Wearing a custom made jacket, the shell feels like it is 1/8th bigger than the lining, thus moving freely while the lining as an armor hugs you, gives you posture that you otherwise didn’t have, underlining the strengths of the strengths of your particular anatomy and muting the foibles. My favorite contender!!
In this case the picture delivers very little. There are many a nuances that one finds on closer appraisal, hidden joys,
It seems that double-breasted jackets were in the spotlights which is a good point.
This is a proof that making DB is a real art, the blue with gold button is simply amazing and gives a real modern touch to a “classic” and sometimes oldfashion piece… Will you send more pictures of this jacket ?
We can do, yes Fabrizio
Also some others pictures of Panico and Anderson & Sheppard DB,please.
While I have much respect for Cifonelli (and everyone else there), I do not understand the Cifonelli cut. Every man wants to look taller, slimmer and more sculpted.
This particular Cifonelli coat shortens the body with it’s truncated length, the enormous lapels widen the torso and the wide upward spread of the buttons add to the widening effect. You look short and fat. Not a flattering look on anyone! A classic line has more elegance and certainly more permanence. It also has a far broader appeal.
Panico is probably the best. Not generally keen on Anderson & Sheppard, but their suit also looks good.
I had the chance to take part of this huge event ! The presented looks were completely reflecting the perfection and research of details… I must say that the Cifonelli’s DB was a masterpiece ! I do not agree with Mac, I’ve seen Lorenzo Cifonelli wearing a blue DB with wide lapels – the result was simply breathtaking…
Hi Franck,
Obviously we disagree! I have a lot of repect for Cifonelli though. However, I do think those lapels and buttons need a longer length to balance the exaggerated proportions. Chittleborough & Morgan would seem to agree if you look at their styling.
I keep coming back to look at the A&S jacket. I really like the soft shoulders with the subtle roping. I also like that they’ve moved away from drape but still keep the chest more full than a lot of tailors do these days. This is the look I prefer, which used to be a middle ground between A&S’s traditional drape cut and the more military cuts of Savile Row.
Matt, as per the clarification from Anda above, there isn’t actually less drape.
Dear Simon,
An interesting exercise albeit as I mentioned in a previous post I would have preferred that they had all worked with the same cloth.
As things stand, although life is not a competition, I think that stylistically A&S have it hands down.
I’m not a huge DB customer (I find them a little fussy) and would have liked them to field their SB which I consider to be their piece de resistance. That said they still get my vote.
Second place goes to Panico’s chalk stripe but that’s probably because I like the cloth (all the more reason that they should have worked with the same) albeit I hate a ticket pocket on a DB.
All in all great stuff !
Regards,
David
Hi Simon, I notice on the AS suit the side tabs are located slightly below the waistband, is this to minimize the visual effects of a shortened torso?
I have a short torso, AND short legs, but the mid section is relatively long. My natural waist is about an inch or two above my belly button, so when getting pants made, i am sort of in a dilemma here.
You see, to elongate legs i was thinking of going for a slimmer pant that falls closer to the natural waist, but doing so would necessarily accentuate my short torso; but a lower rise would make the legs seem shorter as well, as well as not being as comfortable.
What kind of rise should I opt for to visually minimize a long mid section?
Thanks so much!
The side tab is more for effectiveness than anything else. I find they work much better. In your situation it sounds like it’s about balance. Lengthening either part is not going to solve the problem, but overall wearing a well-fitting suit will be a big help, as it will put your waist exactly where you want it to be
I will sound repetitive as I had requested your help on this matter before. Would you let us, your readers know whether or not this event will be held in 2016 and when. I greatly enjoyed your Florence report. Great work.
Thanks Christian. We won’t start planning it until later in the year I’m afraid. I’ll certainly let everyone know then, though
Many thanks. I am trying to structure my 2016. Your swift attention is sincerely appreciated. Best regards. C
Dear Simon,
I have found the SB dinner jacket from Liverano really superb. Another interesting point of discussion arising from the observation of the pic of Liverano’s DJ is that the jacket appears associated to grey trousers with seam silk braids, a very elegant combination that in my opinion could become a valid alternative to white dinner jackets in warm climates. Is the jacket in a black or midnight blue fabric ? Thanks
Angelo
Midnight blue, as are the trousers I’m afraid
Dear Simon,
thank You very much for Your quick clarification. I was just curious in asking because I am on the way of ordering to my tailor a shawl collar DB dinner jacket in a wool and mohair royal blue fabric (facings covered with midnight blue cord silk) to be associated with medium grey lightweight trousers.
Angelo
am Nigeria union of tailor
Simon, I noticed that the A&S trousers’ back pocket button is gray and shiny, like mother-of-pearl. (The jacket buttons, contrastingly, are matte and perhaps navy.) Is MOP on trousers a fairly typical detail of A&S’s work?
Yes it is, and of several other Savile Row tailors. Usually just on the back pocket though, given no buttons on the trousers are visible elsewhere. I always liked it as a small decorative touch.