A couple of weeks ago we talked about necklines on knitwear - as part of the article on mock necks.
I thought it would be interesting to take a closer look at this, in particular the effect of different heights of crewneck.
Just as with the collar of a jacket or shirt, different heights suit different men. Someone with a longer neck tends to look better with a higher collar, and someone with a shorter neck, a lower one. It’s a question of proportion, and balance.
Style is a factor here too, of course. Higher collars might look more formal, and lower ones more casual. And fashions affect what collar shape looks desirable, as well as what simply looks high or low compared to the average.
But arguably fit or proportion is the most important factor. It’s certainly the one men pay least attention to.
Unfortunately with knitwear, you’re less likely to be able to specify a height.
There are bespoke services for knitwear (such as 40 Colori reviewed recently) and of course most men don’t have shirts or suits made either.
But for those that do, it’s much easier to have a shirt made, and so specify a collar height. With knitwear you’re largely picking between ready-to-wear brands.
So to illustrate a few of them, as well as demonstrate the difference these necklines make, I’ve photographed three here for comparison.
The first example, above, is from Luca Faloni. The brand makes great Italian knitwear, and this is my favourite model - the cashmere crewneck.
However, I don’t wear this without a shirt underneath, because the neckline is relatively low and I don’t think it looks good on my (purely relatively) long neck.
It’s not helped by the fact that this model has a beige band running around the edge of the collar (as well as the cuffs) which makes it look lower still.
The effect is less noticeable from the front, as shown at the top of this article. But even there I think it looks a little low, and of course people see you from all angles.
The next example is from Colhay’s. A young brand, they sell Scottish knitwear in a relatively slim cut. Reviewed recently here.
Pictured is the grey cashmere crewneck, and I think it’s immediately clear that the neckline is slightly higher, and a better fit for my proportions.
The darker shade of grey also arguably makes a difference, given my pale skin colour, but the neckline is the most important factor I think.
Even so, I don’t tend to wear this sweater on its own - I’m more likely to wear a shirt or at least T-shirt underneath. For those guys that do wear a crewneck like this, however, I think the difference is worth noting.
(For an example of the Colhay’s knit with a T-shirt see post here. The white tee also serves to make the colour of the knitwear less relevant, as it sits between it and the face.)
The third example, above, is from Loro Piana. It’s a cashmere model not currently available, but which was offered last Summer - called, if I recall, the girocollo.
It has a higher neck still, almost verging on a mock neck. However, it's not that uncommon a height: you get it on a lot of shetlands, and my lambswool crewneck from The Armoury is this height.
It’s also a style you commonly see on vintage sportswear, with a raglan sleeve. And given this Loro Piana design also a raglan, I imagine it was inspired by that heritage.
Of the three crewnecks, I think this is the most flattering on me. The combination with the raglan shape means it’s verging on being too round-shouldered, but with a normal set-in sleeve it would be perfect.
The only downside is that it looks a touch too high - or at least unusual - with a shirt. So it’s not that versatile.
The last example I’ve included is the mock neck from Colhay’s we discussed a couple of weeks ago. You can see how close that sporty Loro Piana comes to being a mock neck, and decide which you think looks best.
I’m with the LP height, but it is interesting how nice the mock neck looks on its own - and how much you appreciate its flattering effects in comparison to the examples above.
This forensic analysis of crew necks might seem a little geeky, but it is something that I think a lot of guys should bear in mind.
As dress becomes more casual, men are wearing more crewnecks without a shirt underneath - in particular sweat shirts. And it suits some a lot more than others, both because of their body shapes and because of the brands they’ve chosen.
A shirt collar, of almost any height, is just more forgiving. If you’re going to relinquish that, put a little thought into how crew necks compare, not just in the length or the slimness of the fit - but in the neckline too.
At the very least, it might mean you're less likely to wear that sloppy sweatshirt to an important meeting. Being well-dressed is not just about a suit and tie.
P.S. Another option with a crewneck is a bandana or neckerchief, as shown below. More on that - materials, lengths, knots - another time.)
Simon, great article. I find that a lot of jumpers have low collars. Always hated the look with a shirt as the jumper collar doesn’t sit next to the shirt collar. Any idea which brands tend to have higher collars?
Interesting – I think that’s a more personal thing, whether you like a high crewneck over a shirt or not.
Colhay’s is certainly a touch higher than most, but other than that the ones I have and have seen with higher collars tend to be shetlands – the Berwick from Trunk for instance.
I guess it is a personal thing. Personally, I think it looks more neat when the two collars sit next to each other.
Yes I think so. Though I’m never quite sure which I prefer – I think they both have their appeal. With a lower collar the shirt can sit a bit more open, and perhaps frame the face a little more nicely. But it’s certainly neat with the collar high.
I think the merino sweater by the Asket has a relatively high sitting collar.
Yes, I’ve tried the Asket jumpers. The cotton knit jumpers are excellent. Lovely slim fit. However, I’ve found the merino wool jumpers to have quite tight fitting sleeves.
I think you are right, the sleeves are snug, though not uncomfortable. As a tall and pretty slim person I really appreciate the sizing options (m – long). With a lot of other brands I would have to compromise either on fit or (sleeve) length.
Hmm, the last mock neck post was pretty disparaging, but I think that it is by far the best look here. Unless you are doing the sports luxe sweatshirt alternative casual look I think the crews need a shirt collar under, and I would get ripped to bits by my pals of I did the cravat-ey thing!
Yes, I like the look of the mock neck more on its own than with tailoring – or under an overshirt, as mentioned on that previous post.
Still, I do think it looks a little unusual for a lot of people, more than perhaps comes across here.
Hi Simon, the one by Loro Piana was definitely a girocollo (without the n), which is the common name that we use for that kind of knitwear here in Italy.
Cheers!
Aha, thanks a lot Boris. Does it mean anything literally? Does it always mean that height of collar, a little like a mock neck?
I’ll change the name in the piece now – for anyone that reads this later and doesn’t understand the reference.
Hi Simon. It literally means round (giro) neck (collo). It’s amusing that italian tourists in UK always ask for that not knowing the term crewneck that, I believe, comes from sweaters used in the Navy.
Sorry I forgot. The mock neck is usally called “lupetto” (little wolf), no idea why. And for completeness the roll-neck is called “dolce vita” (I think no need to translate) referring, I believe, to knitwear used in the Fellini’s movie by some actor (but I am pretty sure wasn’t Mastroianni).
Thanks. So any crewneck then, not a higher one necessarily.
Looks like a portmanteau of “giro,” which means “turn” or “around,” and “collo,” which means neck.
Great article Simon,
This is something I emphasize om when picking knitwear. I’ve found that the Rubato crew neck is perfect for me! Good height and tight as to make it sit where I want it to!
Good point, yes sorry I forgot about Rubato (given the unusual fit elsewhere).
First anonymous commenter – that’s a brand suggestion for you
Any idea what the quality is like?
Of Rubato? It’s very good – though aiming for something hardy and not necessarily luxury. Have a look at my coverage of it here.
Girocollo means ‘around the neck’. I’ve always taken it to be simply the Italian for ‘crewneck’.
Brilliant as ever Simon, I certainly prefer a high neck for knitwear. The same is true for shirts too, actually.
Where would Rubato sit on the high/low scale?
See comment above SMG – they’re fairly high
Great article as always. I’d be interested to read your thoughts on bandanas. Seems like an interesting alternative to me – even though some people might have to get used to the look first.
Will do. It is a hard look, but marginally easier than something in silk or cashmere
Thanks Simon, where on this sliding scale would you place the Rubato crew necks?
See two comments above!
I really dislike a low neckline. I love Luca Faloni’s pullovers and have quite a few, but I find the necklines of their crew necks too low. The Trunk Berwick pullovers are great and have a nice high neckline, perhaps too low for some. My Harley Shetland pullover has a pretty much perfect neckline, not quite as high as the Trunk Berwicks – but better than anything else I have – and they show a little more of the shirt collar and allow it to roll just a little more. Highly recommended. I’ll be buying more soon.
good post as usual, do you have any plans to do a crewneck in that nice loro piana merino wool you use ?
any other items coming out soon? (it’s coming to the time of year I like to plan what I’m buying in the next year!)
No, sorry, no plans to bring back the Finest Knitwear (a range we originally did in it – crew and V)
The Friday Polos are back in January in new colours, and the Trench Coat will be back too, with some nice tweaks
Any news on the selvedge denim button down ? I think that shirt would tick all the boxes for me
Do you mean the chambray? We’ve never done a selvedge denim
yep! my mistake , I meant chambray , when you covered the 100 hands chambray you mentioned you may do your own oxford
Great. Yes, the chambray should be available any day now. Delays in both Japan and India, but shouldn’t be long.
By doing our own oxford, I assume you mean doing our own button-down shirt, in the chambray cloth? We already do shirts in our oxford cloth
yep ! again.. I always think of button down shirts as oxfords, glad to here it’s coming soon I’ll keep my eyes open
Yeah, these terms always get broader in usage over time. Tweed gets used to mean a pattern sometimes in the same way.
If you want to get first dibs, worth being on the waiting list – email [email protected] for that. I know there’s already a long one.
I definitely think the higher neck looks smarter-lower necks tend to remind me of sports wear. Working from home,I’ve been regularly wearing a high neck collarless linen shirt. Interestingly,I see more high street rtw shops selling the high neck /stand up collarless polo .
Neck length is certainly important. My rugby days have left me with a thick, squat neck and roll necks are too high for me.
What do you think about a v-neck jumper over a white tee? I used to wear this look in college but abandoned it because it started to strike me as immature. Now it seems to be making a comeback and I just might be coming around to it. V-neck without a shirt or tee underneath is just terrible, however.
Personally I think that look with a T-shirt under a V-neck is only becoming popular because of a 90s revival. I don’t think it looks flattering on most guys – same issues as the height of necklines here really
I think part of the issue is guys don’t like to be confined to wearing an article of clothing in only one way. We don’t want to feel forced to wear a crewneck only over a shirt. We like the flexibility of being able to pair a sweater with a shirt or to wear a sweater on its own. That’s why I prefer crewnecks over v-necks. If I only wore sweaters over shirts (and not on their own), I’d likely buy only v-necks since I find they tend to look better over shirts (and under tailoring) by helping to create that flattering “v”-shape that frames the face.
Yes, good point on the versatility. I think it’s a good reason guys should stick with pretty conservative things in tailoring generally
I don’t mind a very high V neck with nothing underneath (or more commonly with a crew neck T as an unseen base layer) but yeah, plunging necklines are not for us chaps!
But then I’m a short guy with a short neck so a slightly lower neckline (like a high v-neck or mid-low crew-neck) helps lengthen my neck. There are limits though obviously: when I say a high V neck, I mean with the point of the V sitting roughly where the second button of a shirt would fasten. Any lower than that and I’d only wear it over a shirt (maybe a polo shirt for a more casual look)
This is perhaps the article that speaks to me the most. I’m rather short and slim and don’t like the look of crew necks over a shirt, so opt for a v neck if needed. But that can often result in a bulky look. I’m going to try some v neck merino wools over a shirt, but I’m not sure (and this is an odd thing to say) I really understand the point of a jumper. It’s not a jacket, gilet or a shirt but can look messy. It’s like it drags an outfit down.
This is a tricky subject, as so much depends on your own physiognomy. I don’t have as long a neck as Simon’s and find that Faloni’s knitwear works well without a shirt, although I prefer cableknit over plain crew neck if I’m going without a shirt.
I find it interesting how menswear blogs get stuck on some of these subjects (e.g., the elusive navy sports jacket that works just as well with jeans as with flannel; the elusive crewneck sweater that works just as well over a shirt as it does without a shirt, etc.) These are fun subjects to talk about and I had a fun time reading this article as well, but we’re ultimately dealing with solutions in search of a problem.
Although finding the perfect navy sports jacket for jeans is a fun subject to talk about, I’m not sure how useful it is in practice. I guess there just aren’t very many situations in which I would want to wear a navy sports jacket over navy jeans. And in the process of trying to make something that works equally well with both jeans and trousers you risk spending a lot of money on something that doesn’t work well for either. And if I’m going to wear the navy jacket over jeans 5% or the time and over chinos / flannel / cords 95% of the time, I’d rather not make any compromises on the latter in favor of the former.
Similar story when it comes to crew neck sweaters. The reality is that a sweater that has a perfect neckline when without a shirt will be too high if worn over a shirt. And although I could see getting one sweater for this purpose, it seems wasteful to have two separate sets of cashmere sweaters, especially since I already have a couple of rollnecks that I can wear for that purpose. A far more practical solution: if you find your dress shirts are to dressy, just acquire an additional denim shirt or two or several comfy brushed cotton shirts. I’ve had to redo my wardrobe a little bit due to the pandemic – I had loads of dress shirts that are getting very little use and only a single denim shirt and 2 brushed cotton shirt that were getting used over and over again. My solution was to move half of the dress shirts to a closet in the guest room and buy several casual shirts that are suitable for wearing around the house.
Thanks. I’m not sure I’d put this in the same category as trying to find a jacket that goes with everything. As a reader above showed in the comments, the height you want with a shirt is more a question of style, whereas this is one of physiognomy. There isn’t really any reason a crewneck can’t do both.
Is what you call height in a crew neck essentially the diameter of the opening? Or is there more to it, e.g. how the neckband sits vs. the shoulders & chest, or how it’s attached? I’ve always liked something against my neck, so I like a small diameter – but I don’t like the look of a mock-neck.
It’s basically the opening, yes. Knitwear doesn’t vary enough in the rest to make them as significant
Interesting to see you wear the Connelly mid grey sweater with darker grey flannels. I thought you’d normally advise against grey + grey, unless there is high contrast?
These aren’t suggested combinations, I just didn’t want to change my trousers for each look!
I assume you mean Colhay’s by the way?
Thanks Simon, I once read that preppy students tended to prefer crewnecks to V-necks, any guesses why? I always felt layering a crewneck over a tie looked a bit stuffy.
I think it was sportier – crewnecks weren’t originally worn over shirts and ties like that, they were more for sportswear.
Interestingly, I associate a V-neck with a tie with an older generation, and therefore it seems stuffier to me. A crewneck with a tie I associate with Italians and newer brands like Drake’s, so it seems less stuffy.
But it’s all just associations!
Interesting article – I think that my jumper from Drake’s I mentioned in the mock neck post may actually fall in category 3 here. Hard to entirely tell on me right now though, what with my neck size being bigger than it should be by about an inch thanks to weight gain at university.
Does anyone here have any experience with the Melrose crewneck by William Lockie? Where does its neckline fit in terms of height compared to the others?
My favourite crew neck look is simply with a soft roll button down shirt underneath, where about a third of the collar shows above the neckline. For me a Shetland wool works best or a heavy gauge cotton/wool mix cable knit. These tend to provide a slightly tighter neckline and a not overly stylised look. Drakes generally get this look spot on with their styling on product pages and in ‘look books’.
Never wear without a collar – feels and looks very bare on me. Best left to a sweatshirt.
Excellent article Simon and further confirmation of the importance of paying attention to the neckline. In my opinion, the mock looks best on you by far. I just purchased a mock from N. Peal that’s a 70/30 cashmere and silk blend that is absolutely outstanding. The fabric feels wonderful, the collar height is perfect, and fit is superb.
Yeah, I got this too in charcoal…the James Bond Spectre mock neck. It is so soft and smooth and the look is excellent.
Any more details you might be able to provide on the new trench coat, Simon? Love my PVC x PS trench — it’s beautifully constructed and really well thought out — but really like the idea of an update, particularly, perhaps a navy blue/more orthodox colour.
Also, any plans on a raglan coat — I’m having one made by Husbands but would be interested to see how PS would approach it.
I think it will be in a more classic colour, yes. Not much more than that is decided at the moment though.
On the raglan, we’ve done this for a couple of years now – have you seen them, eg here?
When I first read this, I thought the Colhay’s knit with a tee or a shirt would make the perfect compromise; on reflection that Loro Piana option does look rather good. Your points on vintage sportswear and lambswool reminded me that the new Anglo Italian lambswool crewnecks (replete with raglan ‘saddle’ sleeves) are specifically marketed and demonstrated as having high necklines – and they even squeezed a collared shirt underneath them too!
Nice, thanks I’d missed that
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the article, I am often put off buying t-shirts and sweaters because of the too shallow collar. I wonder whether you had tried John Smedley‘s crew necks?
I have, and they are a little higher. They’re all fine gauge though, pretty much, unlike the other ones we’ve discussed. For some reason, fine gauge knitwear often seems to have a higher neck. Same with knitted T-shirts
As your photos illustrate perfectly, the naked crew neck has little to recommend it.
Indeed, when paired with a tailored jacket it looks particularly awful.
Personally, I always sport a neckerchief when wearing a crew neck sans shirt and find it always provokes the appropriate amount of style envy from fellow flaneurs and, more importantly admiration from the fair sex.
I look forward to your post on this more advanced art.
Hi Simon,
nothing geeky about it, I personally am a big fan of your forensic and academic approach to menswear.
Great article. I love the plain Brunello Cucinelli Cashmere and Merino/Cashmere sweaters for their perfectly high neck. It would look as flattering on you as the mentioned LP sweater, but without the raglans you dislike (and i do, too).
Nice, thanks Tim
Personally, this is the last thing I worry about with knitwear. As a shorter man (but at 5ft8 not extremely so) nearly all sleeves are excessively long on me and I would guess anyone under 6ft (the majority of men in other words). As far as fit goes, I always buy on sleeve length, of necessity, as to the best of my knowledge knitwear cannot be altered, which begs the question (at least for me) why no one offers knitwear with different sleeve lengths as an option as many shirt makers (even quite affordable ones) do.
Hey Simon,
Knitwear can actually be altered – though how much and where depends on the piece and what you need doing. Worth checking someone like Love Cashmere who I’ve used in the past for such alterations, as well as repairs.
The reason people don’t offer different sleeve lengths for knitwear is cost – you basically double or triple the stock you need to hold immediately, which always carries cost in terms of sell-through. And the reason you see it more with shirts than knitwear, is that knitwear sleeves have a rib at the end, which makes them forgiving on length than a shirt. Still an issue I’m sure, but there’s a good 1 or 2cm of length there than can be taken up by excess in the rest of the sleeve
Cheers
Thank you Simon. I especially noted your comment on color choice. Prior to this, I may have considered the knitwear based upon the garment’s color alone- now I shall be sure to see how it actually looks on me as well. I guess that should have been obvious but it was not to me, anyway.
Very pleased that came across. Cheers Jay
Who made the double breasted jacket in the second picture? Very nice.
Anderson & Sheppard – see fuller mention of it here
Hello Simon. I’m really hoping the planned piece on wearing a silk neck-scarf under a crewneck is nearing the top of the pile (as mentioned at the end of your Dec 18th post)! This winter I’ve taken to slipping a neckerchief under a sweater, but I really need some help getting it right! And, although I know you have previously said there’s ‘dozens of examples’ of online tutorials (including the Hermes Silk Knots app – which, personally, I found quite limited), but I, for one, would really appreciate a step-by-step lesson from you, Simon!
PS. I was very grateful to find two previous PS posts on this subject: ‘How to Wear a Silk Scarf’ (3 Oct 2011) and Hermes Silk Scarf…” (2 Apr 2014). Are there anymore that I should look out for?
I think that’s it, and sorry David, this has been delayed a bit because I wanted to do a video and I haven’t been able to meet up with the film team. But it will happen!
Hello again Simon. Recent activity on this thread reminded me that it will soon be time to don our neck-scarves! Is a video guide on how to tie them still on your agenda? Kind regards, David
It is David, but it keeps getting pushed back by things like the pop-up. Sorry, but it will happen!
Hi Simon, hope all’s well,
Can I ask (apologies if slightly personal) what size you wear in the Colhay’s crew neck vs Luca Faloni?
I’m thinking about ordering a Colhay’s crew neck and trying to ensure I get the right size first time. I wear a medium (perfect fit) in luca Faloni, (38/48) however I think the Colhay’s 40/50 (medium) would actually fit closer a Luca Faloni medium as opposed to Colhay’s small (38/48) .
Apologies if that sounds a bit muddled, I just know you’re similar dimensions to myself.
Thanks and much appreciated,
Ck
No worries.
I wear a 40 in the Colhays, but can size up to a 42. I was in two minds, but have stuck with 40 mostly. It’s a neat fit.
With Faloni, I always wore a small before, but recently sized up to a medium. I don’t think there’s a direct parallel between their sizes, but I’d say on balance a Colhays 40 is most similar to a Faloni small
Thanks Simon, appreciate it. That settles it for me.
Ck
Hi Simon,
Would you consider Colhays in 42 fit better than 40 when you wear a PS Oxford shirt underneath?
I wear Small in PS shirt and the Finest Cardigan and they fit great.
Most of the time I will wear the Colhays crewneck with PS shirt underneath, so you think I should take 38 or 40?
( I am 5”11 and around 140lb).
Thanks.
Yes I do think it is. I’d probably take a 40
Thanks Simon,
You are wearing Colhays in 40 inside the “ Introducing PS chambray”, right?
Yes. I could also wear a 42 there though. There’s not a big difference between them
Hi Simon – Could I ask you for advice on Colhay’s Polo sizing? If the PS Rugby M fits me perfectly, would you recommend size 40 or 42 in Colhay’s? I ask because from the specs it seems like Rugby M would be between Colhay’s 40 and 42. But I saw you mention in the navy Rugby launch article that you size up to a L for a more comfortable fit, whereas for Colhay’s you use 40, which seems like sizing down. Is there a reason you recommend a trimmer fit with Colhay’s? Or have your sizing preferences evolved since this post? Thanks a bunch for your help.
I don’t think the two are that comparable because the PS Rugby is that much thicker. I’d still take a 40 most of the time in the Colhays
In comparing the Luca Faloni and Colhay’s crewneck when you use them over a Armoury white polo do you like the space of Faloni or do you have a general preference still towards the tighter opening on the Colhay’s model?
I still prefer the Colhay’s, personally
Simon, it is a nice informative article. There is an aspect you did not cover. The neckline can be either very soft (1 layer only) or reinforced. Do you think this influences the style: formality level, greater compatibility with collared shirts or tailoring, etc? Or this is done solely for the longevity of knitwear?
Good point, and not one I’ve ever looked closely at.
I would say the thicker and wider the neckline is, the more casual it will be. But it won’t make much difference to longevity
All good points. Posture also plays into this. When one stoops or has forward head posture the neckline tends to dip down exposing the front of the neck. This makes the neck look longer and more vulture-like from the side. When one straightens up, sucks in their gut and puts their shoulders back, the crewneck tends to sit further back on the neck and look more natural. This is, unfortunately, a problem we all face as we spend more and more time bent over our screens. One of the joys of a sedentary lifestyle, I’m afraid.
In terms of the third example, where it’s in between a crew neck and a mock neck, do you tend to wear that just on it’s own or do you sometimes also wear it over a shirt? Does the slightly higher collar completely void the possibility of layering over a shirt? Do you find that it is high enough to frame your face properly just on it’s own? I’ve got the Navy Crewneck sweater (in navy) from Andersen-Andersen and it has a similar higher collar whilst still technically being a crew neck. I’ve mostly wore it on it’s own in the winter as it is a very heavy sweater, but I’ve toyed with the possibility of layering an OCBD under it. Is this something you do yourself or do you just wear the sweater on its own? I’m not sure if I’m over thinking it. Thoughts?
I wear it on its own and with a shirt.
The neckline is higher on the shirt collar, but it still looks OK. Just a slightly different style.
I’d try the same with your Andersen-Andersen
Hi Simon,
May I ask, what size are you wearing in Luca Faloni cashmere sweater?
That’s a Small, but I wear a Medium these days
Hey Simon
Superb post. I find my merz sweatshirts have a very low and wide neck, exposing way too much t shirt. Any suggestions on how to manage? Just an Oxford button down underneath?
Yes, there’s no other solution really. You can look for T-shirts you like the neckline of in particular, but there will still be a lot of them on display