Readers regularly ask about the best options for quality ready-to-wear trousers, so I thought I’d compare three I own.
They're three brands that will come readily to mind for those seeking trousers in London: Drake’s, Anderson & Sheppard, and Anglo-Italian.
My conclusion - spelt out below - is that there is only minor difference between the three in terms of quality. All three are made in Italy, with similar levels of finishing, and source from similar mills.
In terms of style, there are some bigger differences. The rise and leg line vary slightly, for example. But the biggest difference is the range of styles each brand offers: Anglo-Italian offers one (then MTM), while A&S has 14.
In fact I’d say the most significant thing is probably how the brands vary in what they are trying to offer.
Drake’s is slightly more of a fashion collection: the range of materials and colours is smaller and changes more often.
Anglo-Italian is more static: its trousers cover most classic colours and materials, but the total is still only 15-20 material/colour options, in one fit and one style.
But Anderson & Sheppard is aiming to do everything. It has 14 styles, across several materials/colours in stock, and hundreds made-to-order. It’s trying to provide a full trouser wardrobe, to everyone. But you pay more.
Drake’s
£315
Rise: 26 cm (length including waistband minus inside leg)
Half knee: 24cm
Half hem: 20cm
These are olive Drake’s chinos, two years old. It’s not a colour they currently offer, but the cut is the same: high rise without being on the natural waist, flat fronted and fairly classic in the leg.
Drake’s varies the colours it has each season, although usually things like grey flannels, navy chinos and beige/stone chinos are covered. All the styles have belt loops rather than side fasteners.
Of the three trousers shown, it’s the pair with the lowest rise, and the one that works least well on me from that fit perspective. But of course that’s very personal.
Although far from being a full fashion brand, it’s also fair to say that Drake’s varies its range more than A&S, and a little more than Anglo-Italian.
Last year they introduced selvedge cords, for instance, and have now added more colours. This season they also introduced a new style, the Games Chino, which has a wider leg, high rise, and a single pleat.
This is therefore not an option for those with specific views on cloth or cut. For that you need to go up to made-to-measure (from £450).
Anglo-Italian
£305
Rise: 29cm
Half knee: 23cm
Half hem: 19cm
These are trousers in Anglo-Italian’s ‘shaved cotton’ material. Made by Solbiati, it has a nice matte texture, in a world where most bespoke cottons are rather shiny.
They are relatively slim, in a mid-rise, with side adjustors and a single pleat. All of Anglo’s trousers are this one model.
But there are 17 different colour/material choices, including flannels, corduroys, high-twist wools and peached cottons.
This is therefore a collection that I can see a reader building a full range of trousers out of, to support any blazer or blouson in the top half.
And while there is some variation season-to-season, it’s largely small changes in the type of cloth - eg a new in-house flannel rather than the VBC one offered previously.
The Anglo-Italian waistband has a slightly unusual tab above the fly, but all three trousers vary slightly - with A&S using a metal fastener and the others just buttons, for example.
Personally, I’ve never noticed any difference between the three designs in terms of performance, and whether you want a button on the end of the extended waistband is more a style point.
In terms of general make, all three have everything you want in high-end RTW: neat and precise machine sewing, good-quality hardware, and small points of reinforcement. Anglo just has one difference: a touch of prick stitching on the pockets.
Anderson & Sheppard
£495
Rise: 27cm
Half knee: 23cm
Half hem: 19cm
These cords are in Anderson & Sheppard’s Model 1, which has a flat front, mid-to-high rise and side adjustors.
It is my favourite of the 14 they offer, which encompasses pleats, real high rise, slim legs, gurkha fronts and even drawstring waists. Most of them can be seen in their guide on the website here.
As well as that variation of styles, the trousers come in sizes from 30 to 50, and a big range of fabrics. There are over 600 pairs in the shop.
But, even though I bought this pair ready-made (with a small adjustment to waist and finishing the length), the number of options means there are only a few in each fabric/size. Everything else is made to order (at no extra cost).
That range also comes at a price: Anderson & Sheppard is the most expensive of these three, with cottons £495 and linen £395 (all including VAT).
Effectively the whole offering is priced as MTO, with the aim of providing a service that can quickly provide almost any style of trouser, as the partner to jackets made bespoke around the corner.
As a result it basically sits somewhere between RTW and made to measure (which both Drake’s and Anglo-Italian offer). It basically assumes the fit works well enough for you without MTM, but wants to offer similar style variation.
As an aside, I think the fit of these A&S trousers works best on me of the three brands, but that’s largely body shape. I also think the finish inside is slightly nicer than the other two, but really just in terms of colour and material choice, rather than anything more practical.
In conclusion, all three brands are good options in terms of what readers most often ask about: quality. And they’re all a step above anything on the high street that’s made more cheaply.
Fit is a question of preference and body shape - some will like the slightly higher-rise Anglo-Italian, others will want one of A&S's myriad options.
It may not be so satisfying as a side-by-side review, but the real points of difference here are style and variety.
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Hey Simon I especially like this article given that I have no access and budget for most of your bespoke tailors covered here. Would love to see more pictures with such articles though. I notice there are no front pictures of the drakes and anglo pair!
Oh good. No good point on the front illustrations. Though frankly RTW cotton trousers are never going to look good in pics – bespoke worsted it ain’t
Great to hear you view on them – thank you Simon
Helpful piece, thanks Simon. In your concluding remarks do you mean to say “some will prefer the higher rise Anglo Italian”?
Yes thanks, I’ll correct now
I am fortunate to have a tailor who makes bespoke trousers for me for £250k plus cloth.
Spending the equivalent for RTW makes no sense to me.
Not sure where you live Peter, but would love to know which local tailor is making bespoke trousers for £250. Even here in Madrid, where tailors are relatively cheap, the starting price would be at least €400
(Obviously there are MTM options for much less, but I’m talking true bespoke)
Chris Georgiou on Kings Cross Road London makes bespoke trousers for this price, with cloth staring at £300.
From the pictures, you’d think it has the lowest rise out of the three…
Best post in months. Ta
Maybe i am missing something but why is the Drake’s model considered “high-rise” with a rise of 26 cm while the Anglo-Italian model is considered “mid-rise” with a rise of 29 cm?
Sorry that was a typo as mentioned above. Should be the other way around.
Both are fashion forward sitting on the hips. I don’t blame them for doing that as the target market is your 25-45 affluent corporate type who wants to look smart but still fit in. Its good business. You can’t call them trousers cut in a classic way though. A&S all trousers are the same too apart from I think the brace top ones but as I said in another comment why anyone would pay that money for a RTW trouser I don’t know. Well perhaps if you were given a week to live by your doctor and needed a pair of trousers desperately there and then.
You can’t really say that sitting on the hips is fashion forward, Rups. That’s how the vast majority of trousers have been worn for decades.
If anything, being on the natural waist is fashion forward. It’s very in right now.
You are right its been decades now since trousers have been worn on the hips (well as popular dominant look I think it probably started in the 60s then for some bizarre reason the 80s into early 90s have been the only break period since then). We have to distinguish where on the hips though, if the trousers are higher on the hips and going around the arch of them its ok in my opinion as the top of the waistband lies across the belly button, but lower that this creating space on the abdomen just looks displeasing to me if worn as part of a tailored outfit. Thats something that ‘the fluss’ quite rightly pointed out LoL You get the dreaded shortened leg, triangle of shirt and upper jacket body looking disproportionately long.
Drakes & Anglo Italian both are making clothes for the current yuppie … its short, tight and narrow unstructured everything Italian tailoring all made in a casual style which fits the zeitgeist. What it is not is classically cut tailored menswear. Its also fiendishly expensive for what it is but then your paying for relatively small production runs for what are essentially independent boutiques with no economies of scale who are paying for real estate in the most expensive zone in the world. Now the big designer brands are even worse Franken monsters but Ill leave that rant for another day. Must go calm down with a nice cup of tea now in my old age while I doze off dreaming of a bygone age where men actually dressed like men. Bah Humbug)
You’re wrong to categorise Drakes and Anglo in that way. Their cut is nowhere near as short or tight as most younger tailoring out there, or most southern Italians. It’s not Savile Row but it’s still classic.
1. I have a pair of Anglo-Italian trousers. They sit at my waist or maybe a centimeter below. A 30 cm rise is pretty high and tasteful. I haven’t really found much higher in rtw.
2. There are many great reasons to get RTW trousers. First, cost. Sure, a lot of people claim to have mystery bespoke tailors who cost the same, but names are never mentioned and pictures are never given, so I remain skeptical of the quality. In the US, I can get Anglo-Italian trousers for about $350 with shipping, which is a lot, but also less than bespoke. Second, location. Most people in the world do not live in cities with quality bespoke tailors (or bespoke tailors at all for that matter) let alone bespoke tailors who cut clothes in a style I like. Traveling several times to a city with a bespoke tailor is not feasible for most people. Third, taste. Good retailers make tasteful selections. Taste on good rtw generally seems to be better than on bespoke. Many bespoke clothes I see simply aren’t that wearable. Fourth, convenience. Most people don’t want to plan their wardrobes out many months in advance.
Hi- i have not tried this, but I believe Graham Brown in the city of london (where Simon gets his alterations done) will make bespoke trousers for £250. I have to supplement this by saying, I am not 100% if it’s bespoke or MTM, but they implied bespoke when I spoke with them. Worth a try at any rate.
Chris Ruocco, a tailor in Kentish Town who was well known in the 80s for making suits for Wham and many pop stars is also very reasonably priced, and probably around that level for fully bespoke. He is a real character and you will have to know what you want and be specific with what mills and fabrics you want however. I have never used him, but I have two friends (both well known musicians) who swear by him.
All three are quite expensive for a RTW trouser, the Anderson and sheppard being way overpriced. Why would anyone pay 500 pounds for a RTW trouser when you can go to someone like W&S as you do and get a bespoke pair made for less? Perhaps the typical rich American customer of Anderson and sheppard bespoke thinks it’s fine especially with strong dollar and vat claimback but otherwise can’t see why that’s a good option for anyone.
Some readers may not all have access to W&S, etc
I am a big fan of the Anglo Italian trousers. I recommend getting them from the shop rather than ordering online as they do free alterations and the guys in the shop have a great eye for fit. Also I prefer no belt loops as it is much cleaner and I think classier.
I used to buy from Drake’s but recently they seem to have moved towards eccentric prep with their fabric choices and while some of these look great on a model, I’m not confident enough to pull them off.
I haven’t tried A&S’s trousers as I am content with Anglo Italian but I commend their approach. I think I would struggle with the amount of choice available.
Hi simon, could you tell us, Just to have a fit reference, the different trousers sizes you use in each brand?
Thank you very much.
It’s a 32 waist in Anglo and Drakes, 34 in A&S. Good point Dan
I’m sorry for my insistence, but in the picture inside the AS trousers, I see that the size is 34. They may be different sizes depending on the brand?
Forgive my insistence, but because I live ovearseas the only way to access these products is Buying in the web.
Again thank you, greetings from Argentina.
Hi Dan, I do apologise, you’re right. I had tried both, and forgot that I’d gone for the 34 in the end.
Though without knowing how closely our bodies match, is it that useful? The best thing will be to compare the measurements A&S has in a size to a pair of trousers you already have.
I find your comment extremely helpful. I am 183 centimeters tall and I regularly wear size 50 for jackets, M for knitwear and 48 for pants.
Thanks.
Thankyou for a great article, as always!
Just wondering – given they’re RTW trousers would be ok if we know what size you picked in each brand? Also, apart from cuffs, did you need to do any tailoring?
It was a 32 waist.
As mentioned briefly, Anglo can change the whole leg line, seat and waist, as well as the length, and with me we changed the seat, waist and length. With the other two, we just changed the length and took the waist in. They don’t alter more than that.
I am a big fan of Anglo Italian tailoring in general, and as a regular wearer of Incotex for a number of years am about to collect my third pair of AI chinos, this time in the slightly heavier twill. Their fit is perfect for me, although I do have them tapered a little.
I have to say it is a sign of how strong London’s menswear offer is today to have three home grown businesses offering trousers (as well as everything else) such as these, and all three stores are a real pleasure to visit.
Great. I would welcome a similar piece on the MTM options of Anglo and drakes, (and saman Amel, etc)
(I guess that would require a more in-depth set of comparisons)
MTM on trousers you mean, or tailoring also?
I’ve covered both with Saman Amel by the way – have a search. Trousers, knitwear and jackets.
Simon, thanks for this. It’s right up the alley of the type of information I’ve been looking for. I can’t justify the expense of bespoke trousers but still want to get good quality ready to wear and this has been very helpful.
Hi Simon-
What size did you do with in the AI? I have rather large upper legs vis a vis my waist and sometimes have to size up and have the waist brought in. I like the AI cloth selection but have avoided buying online because I am between a 48 and 50 in their sizing guide. Thanks.
I’d recommend going in – as a reader mentions above, they are great on alterations. You’d likely want to take a 50 and have them take it in where they need to.
Slightly unrelated, but since it appears in several of the picture above, that’s a beautiful watch strap and buckle.
Thank you. The watch is my Cartier Chronoflex (details here). The strap was made bespoke by Jean Rousseau (I have very small wrists, so most straps are far too long for me).
I think this might have just become one of my favourite articles. Really interesting discussion/commentary. I especially like the point around the huge range at A&S making it more akin to a comparison with the MTO options offered by the other two companies, which I hadn’t considered that way previously.
Thank you.
Thanks Michael, I’m very pleased. I do feel that’s the biggest difference, but it would be easy to look just at a more analytical view of the three specific products.
Simon, as I have progressed in trying different makes and models of trousers I have found that the placement of the side adjuster dramatically changes how the waistband of the trouser performs. Whereas a high placed side adjuster mostly keeps the waistband in place and lower (on the seam) placed one doesnt really hold the waist together and the band sometimes “flips” over, which can be annoying. Have you noticed this yourself and is there any good fix for it?
To be honest Nicolas, I haven’t found that. I have trousers on the waistband and on the seam, and they both perform just as well. It’s one reason I don’t mind having them on the seam. Perhaps I don’t tighten them as much?
Interesting. I was quite surprised myself as I cant find a reason why this happens. First I figured it may be the cloth, but I have summer wool trousers where the cloth is very lightweight and should be more prone to such behaviour, but no. With the adjuster up there they stay put. Judging from photos I have seen on your pants I’d say tighten mine about the same. I shall dive into this a bit more with the fellas and see what we find out.
Hi Simon, great article and a useful summary of some themes that seem to always appear in relation to trousers. Question: given W&S cotton trousers are c. £560 for bespoke (granted, their India service which may bother some people), why wouldn’t someone pony up the extra £65 vs the A&S cotton option? Is it simply the convenience of not wanting to wait 12 weeks? It seems a minor outlay to get what I imagine is the better fit.
The India make will be the main reason. If these RTW trousers were all made in India, they’d be half the price.
Hello
A couple of folk have commented on the price vs local bespoke tailors who will make a good trouser for less, but you haven’t commented on these. Equally, why do you go for RTW if one of the pairs needed what sounds like pretty extensive alteration?
There are a few points there.
One is that some places like Whitcomb are made in Asia, which not everyone will want.
A second is that not everyone has such a local tailor – indeed, I’d guess few have one they use regularly.
Some may also be buying online or from overseas.
A third is that garment-washed chinos (as the Drake’s are) cannot be made by a tailor. They would need industrial washing facilities.
A fourth, that design sometimes plays a part. It’s less important with a trouser, but some tailors are just not good at cutting a design you want. Even, bizarrely, when copying them.
Fifth, the materials might not be available bespoke. Remember, only a minority of cloth is. Most cloth is designed for brands. You won’t find the materials I’ve used for my Stoffa trousers, for instance, at a tailor.
There might also be an issue with hardware and linings etc there.
Having said all that, I would pretty much always have my trousers made bespoke, though less likely with cottons because of the points on washing and on materials.
Thank you Simon for the extra info, it’s very useful. I guess my question was really targeted towards the A&S cord offering vs W&S cord offering – and location of manufacture aside, which I don’t believe should *really* come into the equation vis a vis quality given your past comments and my own first hand experience with both offerings. Appreciate though some might want to support local UK manufacturing
Simon
With society going more and more casual, do you see wool trousers slowly vanishing and being replaced by casual chinos? I hope not, but the more I look around, it looks like tailored wool trousers are slowly but surely disappearing.
I think that’s largely because people don’t know what they are. Yes, things are more casual, but everyone would find a place for a good pair of flannels if they knew what they were.
I’m travelling today with a friend that wears pretty much just workwear, but is having some navy flannels for his first tailored trousers. They’ll instantly lift the other things he wears, when he wants to be a tough smarter.
Most guys just don’t know what flannel is. Let alone cav twill, whipcord etc. And they don’t need to if they’re not ordering bespoke – they just need good retailers to sell them good wool trousers.
Interesting response and I have to say, reassuring.
The waistband seems to collapse on your pair of A&S trousers, no? I own just one pair of trousers from the A&S haberdashery and it has the same weak waistband. That’s not an issue when you’re wearing a belt, but I find it slightly annoying when you aren’t or when you’re wearing braces instead. Wish they could reinforce it a little more.
True. It’s an issue I have generally with RTW, and I’d say all three trousers have the same thickness of interlining. It’s just that the A&S cord is very soft.
Tailored trousers, particularly English ones, tend to have a thicker interlining.
Hi Simon,
Thank you. This is a really useful article as someone just starting to build my wardrobe. Would you be able to comment briefly on how Stoffa’s MTM offering sits in relation to these?
Quality very similar, but obviously MTM so a much better fit. Exclusive fabrics, which is an advantage, but also slightly restricted choice as a result too.
Slightly less convenient as have to wait for a trunk show
I am very happy with the trousers I’ve had made by Stoffa (following your review). Without your experience it is difficult to not to simply assume more expensive is better (given Stoffa’s MTM is actually very competitively priced). I agree there is some limitation associated with fabric choices and trunk shows but overall at their price point and quality I will continue to build their first before looking elsewhere. Thanks for your response.
I had the same problem with with two pairs of A&S trousers. I took them back in and they were altered, reinforcing the waist band I believe, and are now great. It was annoying to be sure, but the return was handled with no fuss, which was much appreciated.
I have the same problem with my Blackhorse Lane jeans, which I think is exacerbated by the positioning of the belt loops and, therefore, where a belt sits when I am wearing one
I’ve had similar issues with my A&S trousers in the past .- it started to fold in half – and ended up having my tailor open up and reinforce the waistband. They are fine now, though most of my trousers now are bespoke and haven’t had this issue.
Hi Simon,
I have a couple of pairs of Style #1 trousers from the A&S haberdashery and I like them very much. However, they have increased in price to the extent that it does not make sense to use them as a RTW option as the bespoke offering from some of various tailors that you have used and mentioned in your website are not far off that price point. That is a real shame in my opinion.
Good point J
I’d certainly endorse the comments on the comparative value of bespoke trousers by W&S. Having had several pairs to date I’ve just ordered another pair, having also tried the A&S RTW ones. Definitely worth the extra money (although I did like the A&S ones).
However, I think it’s also worth highlighting the value of Stoffa’s MtM trousers too. With prices ranging from $275 to $375 and the ability to have them made to measure I think they represent unbeatable value.
Fantastic overview Simon, thanks so much. I was wondering have you any experience of or thoughts on Natalino trousers ? Am seeing them around a bit. Similar styling but quite a bit cheaper. I’m assuming they are saving on fabric and make.
Yes, the quality isn’t the same, though I’ve heard some good things on fit. As well as one or two bad. They’ve been pushing quite heavily to get awareness – this year’s Luxire.
Yes I mean a comparison of not just trousers but the full MTM tailoring options between the likes of Anglo I, Saman, Drakes, P Johnson etc. In the spirit of this piece really – aimed at maybe a younger buyer who can’t countenance bespoke yet. I know you’ve done full Saman and P Johnson reviews before but I find the broad scope of a piece like this RTW trousers one really useful.
OK thanks Chris, noted.
If I review the others for MTM tailoring though, I think I’d do separate pieces. Jackets justify that length of coverage more. Readers can always read all three then, one after the other.
I find the rise measurements surprising. To me, the AS pants look like they have the highest rise, and AI the lowest. Simon, how do you explain that? I’m particularly interested in this because I like the look of a higher rise in the front, but always find the back looks a little weird when the waistband sits 4 inches above the swell of the buttocks. Here, the AI look perfect to me while the AS ones less so.
I think it’s hard to judge from the photos, and we’re talking small differences. Plus rise is only one factor in that kind of fit – the size of the seat etc will matter too. You’d need to try them on yourself to really get a sense of those points.
It makes more sense now that I’ve read your comment below about how the rise is measured. When trying on a pair of pants, do you have any point of reference such as how many inches from the navel does it fit and so on? Do you have any that actually go higher than the navel?
In general, I think the important points are whether it fits somewhere on the hips (so somewhere in the dip of your hipbones, at the side of your body), or is above that bone and therefore on your natural waist, between the hip bone and the ribs. It can’t really settle on the bone, so it’s one or the other. Then just variations within each.
Hi Simon,
I’m slightly confused about the rise measurements. Is it the back or front rise? Or a different type all together?
It’s measured at the side – fairly common when you only have one measurement. The whole length of the trouser, minus the length of the inside leg.
Would like to see a review of Natalino trousers at some point. Honestly the best RTW silhouette I’ve tried, single pleat side adjusters and high rise. Finishing won’t be on par with A&S, AI or Drakes but the fit is more in-line with MTM/ Bespoke for myself (I have a pair of drakes Chino in navy).
The trousers always sell out super quick, and at around £120 for cotton and £165 for flannel the value is hard to beat!
Thanks Ricky. Yes what I had seen suggested the quality wasn’t the best, but interesting to hear on the fit.
Simon, do you ever buy casual trousers with checks, patterns etc. You see some beautiful fabrics in the autumn in particular but like myself you appear to mostly stick with solid colours. Appreciate your thoughts.
No I don’t really. They just look too loud, and require the top half to be all plain.
I actually do have a pair of mid-grey herringbone ones I had made a few months ago, but I’ve found I rarely wear them. Only really with a plain shirt or knitwear, never a jacket.
What’s the color on the A&S cords in the article? It can’t find it on their site. Its’ beautiful!
It’s a mid-grey, but no it wouldn’t be on their website – there are far more colours and fabrics available in store than you can see there.
Personally, I just purchase cords,chinos and moleskin trousers from Cordings and then just modernise the cut by having them altered to A&S style 1 by a good tailor.Works out much cheaper.
Yes i use Cording’s for my trousers and then get them adjusted. Some of them I believe are a little loud in colour and has been said around this site previously that the legs of a man are not the best place for him to draw attention to. For a little more I’d go to Graham Browne or MTM although that leaves me with the responsibility of being the designer.
Surprised to read A&S trousers are made in Italy, I thought they were made by the local trousers makers at A&S?
No, that would be a bespoke level and be more expensive.
None of the things in the A&S Haberdashery are made by the bespoke shop or bespoke team. The two are separate in that regard
Hi Simon
I had a pair of bespoke trousers made but unfortunately have lost a few kgs and that has made the trousers to be a bit big. Would you recommend the trousers to be altered by a local tailor or be sent back to the bespoke trouser maker
If it’s just taking them in at the waist, and a little into the seat, then a local alterations tailor should be fine.
Simon
What are the cords like at keeping a crease?
Not great. They’re too light and soft in that regard. Feel wonderful, but not so good for sharpness.
Any experience with moleskin? Does moleskin hold a crease reasonably well? Or is pretty much all cotton poor at holding a crease?
It isn’t great, no. Too soft and thick.
Denser, finer cottons are better. They’re not my style, but Scabal has some sharp ones
Simon, thank you for your article. Always value added. The cord is wonderful. May i ask if it’s a 10 wale or less or more? What’s your view on which wale to choose for suit/trousers? thanks
Forgive me Simon but there is an awful lot of ‘ass’ in these shots – only one full length shot from the front – which is where most men ajudge from. I realise, for you, the rear fit is an issue but I’m interested in the silhouette as well as the fit and none but the first image informs on this. Rups is half right re. fashion. The cuts displayed are the end-point of fashion’s skinny/slim phase and will soon be out of date. A cursory glance at the menswear silhouettes displayed on Vogue’s Paris & Milan 2018:2019 menswear catwalks point to the full, relaxed, high waisted cuts as the next point in fashion evolution.
Excellent article.
I always thought head to head comparisons of ‘similar’ garments would prove popular amongst discerning flaneurs.
In this instance, I go for A&S because their choice of styles and cloths is unbeatable – as is their service.
I have no experience of Anglo-Italians service but find Drake’s sadly lacking.
Hi Simon,
Nice post!
Do you have a preference on flat fronted vs pleats, belt loops vs side adjusters, turn ups etc. ? And what drives your decision?
That would be a long reply… I’m doing a post in our Suit Style series that will answer it in more detail.
Worth having a look if you haven’t at the rest of the pieces too – under ‘Guides’ in the menu
Out of interest why do you use cm measurements when the UK/USA (the main English language markets) use inches for apparel?
It’s a little random – readership is pretty split between the two. Perhaps I should try to be more consistent
Are you still an Incotex fan for chinos?
If I can find the classic, higher rise cut, then they’re good. But they’ve become more expensive and these days I prefer to get MTM ones from Stoffa – see my review of Stoffa trousers for details on that changeover, and what people expect from a chino
I have noticed that many comments debate the price of rtw garments in relation to those made by tailors. Personally, I think the both options (in their most prominent expressions) will have more or less value depending on “how regular” the size of the person is. I do not agree to assume that the choice of tailor is always the most recommended, I see there more snobism than usefulness. However, if any aspect of the body requires it, a tailor will always be the best choice. By the other side, if the person’s body fits the “market” sizes, the rtw options in relation to design, variety and style will usually be superior. Obviously the fit will never be the same, but it’s a matter of priorities. I say this being a big fan of everything related to the world of male luxury, which does not imply understanding that it does not always turn out to be the most useful artisanal options. Even in the blog Simon mentioned several times how frustrating some artisanal experiences can be.
Would it be fair to say that Drakes, of the three makers featured, seem to produce a more scruffy trousers, prone to wrinkling etc. Than the others?
That is not meant as a criticism of course – I understand their style is supposed to be a little less polished, but it’s a relevant point perhaps for people such as me who try and use clothes to help subvert their inherent and unwelcome naturally scruffy qualities!
They do some more casual (translation of scruffy) trousers than the others, yes. But they also do some smart ones, flannels etc
Thanks Simon.
Perhaps “louche” was the word I was really looking for.
Hi Simon,
Great piece!
Do you have any experience or opinion on SUITSUPPLY – all their trouser collection seem to be in wools and flannels from Italian mills such as E. Thomas and come in a choice of high and low waist rise. Overall they look pretty good.
Many thanks
Richard
Thanks. I haven’t had them made, but the quality I’ve seen is not great. Ok for a high street maker but not a comparison to this.
It’s not often a good sign if they sell on the basis of the cloth a lot. It suggests they can’t sell the product on its own merits
I purchased a suit from Suit Supply when I needed something in a hurry. It was decent quality in respect of the price but it was not and is not a comparable product to bespoke or better quality RTW suits. Of course, it was also much, much cheaper.
I do not expect to shop there again but then I’m not planning to shop anywhere at that price point at the moment.
I will continue to list it as an option for colleagues who are looking at products in that budget range (in practice, most of my colleagues) and think it’s a solid product for the price – it’s just that there’s a limit to what can be provided at that price point. It’s also a little bit fashion forward for me but then that’s probably just me getting older!
Thanks Michael. I think that’s well put, and something people should keep in mind more. A suit at that price is not going to be comparable with something two or three times as expensive – start from that assumption, and be surprised if it’s close in any area
Apologies for adding a political comment here, that could be divisive. But I also happen to find suit supply’s branding truly repellant. The half naked women in the dressing room, supposed to inflate our egos as we purchase a suit, is a remnant of menswear past I for one could do without.
I believe Gauthier Borasello, in a audio piece Simon posted, very correctly suggested that the most elegant thing about a men is his manners. Suit supply could learn a thing or two from that inspired insight.
Which 5 odd trousers out of your whole pant wardrobe do you wear most Simon? What are their colors?
Have you looked at our Building a Wardrobe section? In the menu under Style.
Hey Simon,
Do you by any chance know what cloth A&S uses for the flannels in Model 1 on their website? I’ve emailed them but haven’t heard back.
Thanks for the help as always,
Grant
No, sorry Grant
I have had and tried both Incotex and Rota. Both are good (Incotex the old regular fit, not slim or skin tight). Rota is by far the best RTW I have had. I have bought the from different suppliers e g Anderson&Sheppard, a store in Rome and one in Milano (can’t remember the names). Most of my Rotas and the (only) online supplier I buy from now is M Jondral, Hannover, Germany. By far the best make, style and options. Best service and also information about the different fabrics (Brisbane Moss, Loro Piana, Holland&Sherry, VBC) on the webb. I mostly buy Rota Sartoriale, which I swear by. I’m an online customer and have never been to Hannover, but hope to be able to visit the shop in the future. To me M Jondrals capsule collection and shop is the best and that is not only about the trousers from Rota.
hi hans, would you please tell me how is the rise on those rota trousers (is it as high as drake’s?) and what is the leg opening measure? thanks
Hi Simon – how do you look after these trousers? Wash and iron at home or dry clean? Thank you
Dry clean
Do you dry clean all your cotton chinos?
If in doubt, yes. But some are fine – eg Incotex ones, without the same internal make.
Thank you!
Hi Simon, I have a similar question. I just purchased a Rota Cotton trouser and had never expected to Dry Clean it, though the washing advice clearly says „Dry Cleaning“. The reason is not the outer fabric, it‘s the inner construction like linings and pockets? Also at low temperature washing? Thanks in advance.
It might also be the fabric, but the inner construction is more likely to be the issue.
It’s hard to say whether you could clean it in a machine, so I’d err on the safe side.
Of course, if you bought it from a helpful shop then you could ask them
Thank you Simon.
Hi Ezequiel, the measurements are not the same for all models. Some of my trousers are midrise and some have a slightly higher rise, You can find more information about the measurements in the Jondral sizeguide (on the web page). Best of luck👍
really appreciated, hans
hi simon what’s your advise with regards sizing for drake’s trousers? Did you take your usual size or buy one size bigger and take in the waist?
I took my normal size
hi simon, how do you find olive trousers like drakes (just the colour not the model) combine with navy, dark grey (herringbone/POW/houndstooth) and brown (like your caliendos) jackets?
Olive is great with navy and dark brown, I find, but not so good with dark grey. Better with mid- or light grey
great. thank you!
Dear Simon,
I would be very interested to hear how you compare the likes of Incotex, to the above offerings from Drake’s etc. I appreciate many of their offerings are more casual, i.e chinos rather than very smart pleated-trousers. Do you think they are of a similar quality to the brands mentioned above?
Kind regards
Nick
I’d say generally they’re not quite of the same quality – these brands tend to use more premium tailoring materials, whereas Incotex are using cheaper ones that are then garment washed hard to give that soft and faded-edge look that a lot of people expect from casual chinos.
I wouldn’t say it’s a big difference in quality though, and the style difference between them is the more important one.
Hi Simon,
Can the trousers from Anglo Italian be worn more casually? I am thinking at a bomber jacket,safari jacket, Oxford shirt,polo shirt maybe even a t shirt with a suede chukka or a wingtip leather derby.
I don’t think so, no – fine with most of that but not a T-shirt really. They’re still tailoring more
So all of the above could work except the t shirt,am I correct?
In your weekend wardrobe you recommend a pair of chinos but I can’t find something to work casually.
Anglo Italian has this pair of cotton drill trousers. What do you think about them?
https://angloitalian.com/products/trouser-cotton-drill-khaki
Yes, I think so.
Those chinos are still a little smart, for me. If you want casual chinos for T-shirts and so on you should be looking at makers like Blackhorse Lane, at things like the Army chinos from The Armoury, the likes of Rota and Incotex. I still think there’s a lack in this area though, between the more workwear-inspired brands and the tailoring ones, for good chinos.
Not necessarily for t shirt, i know realise that these kind of trousers can’t be worn with a t shirt. The thing is that I am new at this and don’t have enough experience and information to start building a wardrobe. So I want a pair of cotton trousers that could work casually,for eg ,going to a restaurant, in a mall, visiting someone. For the moment I have a moleskin bomber jacket and private white peacoat,some oxford shirts and knitwear from Trunk but no trousers.
What do you suggest? Anglo Italian in cotton drill could work or should i try a more casual chino?
Thank you!
I think the cotton drill from Anglo should work for that, yes
Michael, A&Is garment washed cotton trousers are further down the formality scale and sound more suitable than the drill cotton for what you describe. I upgraded my incotex with them and am happy.
https://angloitalian.com/products/garment-washed-cotton-trouser-stone
Nice point John
But are they good for fall/winter? The cotton drill has 400grams while the washed cotton has 290 grams. So the difference lies not only in weight but also in formality?
For me 290gms is ok for all year wear, though the coldest climate I experience is London. However 400gms is surely too heavy for summer, so it really depends what your needs are.
I like their garment washed trousers because they can be dressed up/down, while the drill cotton is more formal.
Good luck!
Hi Simon,
Out of these 3 pair of trousers which would be more suited to be worn casually with a navy peacoat maybe a bomber jacket with knitwear and some oxford shirts?
https://rota-pantaloni.com/collections/fall-winter/products/beige-herringbone-cotton-sport-trousers?variant=32959026987083
https://rota-pantaloni.com/collections/fall-winter/products/khaki-pair-of-regular-fit-winter-cotton-stretch-trousers?variant=32820388593739
https://rota-pantaloni.com/collections/fall-winter/products/light-beige-pair-of-regular-fit-cotton-trousers?variant=30035676725323
Either of the first two probably. The last are a little smarter
Hi Simon,
I understand that cream colour should be worn when it’s sunny outside rather than temperature. So between these 2 colours I think that beige is lighter and in my country it’s not so much sun during winter. What about the khaki colour from the pants,is suitable for navy outerwear?
https://rota-pantaloni.com/collections/fall-winter/products/khaki-pair-of-regular-fit-winter-cotton-stretch-trousers?variant=32820388593739
https://rota-pantaloni.com/collections/fall-winter/products/beige-herringbone-cotton-sport-trousers?variant=32959026987083
Thank you!
Yes I think that’s right, and yes the khaki will be good with navy
Hi Simon,
I recently purchased a pair of trousers from Rota but in the pictures from their website the colour was a little bit lighter. Do you think that this colour (khaki as they name it though I think it’s a bit of olive in it,khaki green perhaps) can work with navy? Please check the link if you may. Thank you!
http://imgur.com/a/reH0PZQ
Yes I think it will be OK with navy, though will probably look even better with black and cream
Hi Simon,
I forgot to ask a question. Are these trousers from Rota suited to be worn casually (They are from cotton with a brushed effect) with peacoat maybe a bomber jacket with knitwear? Sorry for the bad picture. These are my first pair of trousers,I am slowly building a wardrobe but the formality of clothes for my activities is for a casual wardrobe(sometimes smart casual). I wanted a lighter colour for trousers like cream but they are not suited for the weather in my country during winter. What colour would you suggest as a next pair or fabric? I was thinking at some light grey flannel but I found only with one pleat,no flat front. Between one pleat and flat front is there a difference in formality? Regarding corduroy I was thinking at some green ones but again only with one pleat. I want to wear them casually. What recommendation do you have ? I would much appreciate it! Thank you for your help!
http://imgur.com/gallery/iiJp3J3
I think they’ll be fine with a peacoat or bomber jacket, yes. But keep in mind all these are tailored trousers, and not casual enough, for example, for a T-shirt and trainers etc.
In terms of what to add next, have you read the post on trousers in our Wardrobe Building section?
I don’t have many recommendations on RTW trousers like this, but I would always suggest trying Anglo-Italian and Berg & Berg.
S
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your help. After reading the Formality scale and How to style trainers articles now I am a bit confused. In the Formality scale you mentioned that the white trainers could be worn with flannel trousers and in How to style trainers article you showed different levels of formality of trousers worn with sneakers mentioning that a cotton trouser is more suited with trainers even a wool one( not worsted wool). These trousers are smarter than a rugged chino (The Armoury) but still they can be worn with trainers. Why aren’t the trousers from Rota which I mentioned above suited for trainers even though they are from a brushed cotton? This is exactly the type of trouser that I am looking for to wear ,for eg with some trainers but at the same time to be worn a little smarter( with welted shoes).
Simple, slim white trainers like the Common Projects are best suited to chinos. They can work with flannels, but it is a push. The point there was that if any trainer can work with flannels, it’s this one. But it’s still a push.
The Rota trousers will be better with trainers, but they’re still fairly smart. So not with all trainers, and not with a T-shirt. I said ‘a T-shirt and trainers’.
If you want a chino that can go with everything from chunky trainers and a T-shirt, to welted shoes and a shirt, it doesn’t really exist. At the very least, you shouldn’t seek that level of versatility, but get two chinos instead, one smart and one casual
Bought a pair of Anderson & Sheppard trousers in the sale Unimpressed by the quality and the fit was nothing special. Sent a picture of the trouser of to Spencer trousers up North and they are making me something similar for £140. That’s less than half the price! Plus I get the exact material I want.
Hi Simon, I was wondering if you have seen or tried AI’s new garment-washed flat-front chinos? If so, do you think they may look too causal for sports jacket and dress shoes?
Many thanks,
Jack
I’m afraid I haven’t, sorry Jack
Hi Simon,could I ask what your personal is for the extended waistband to finish with either a button or a buckle for the 14oz flannel trousers?
Also, do the trousers in the photos above have extended waistband? I am a bit confused since I have seen much more extended waistband in your trousers guide article.
Many thanks?
Jack
Hi Jack,
I would usually go with a button on the end of the extended waistband on casual trousers, and a hook and clasp on smarter trousers.
Is the shaved cotton Solbiati exclusive to Anglo-Italian? Can’t find it anywhere.
I think it is, yes. Always bear in mind that mills make far more materials than are ever offered as bespoke lengths – because making and storing lengths to supply for bespoke is not cheap.
Hello Simon—very good post, as usual.
I popped into Anglo-Italian, and found even size 44 too wide at the waist. (Ditto Natalino.) Some RTW brands do trousers with suitably slim waists, but it’s seemingly rather difficult to find higher-waisted ones with side adjusters, and the fabric often contains synthetics.
The RTW offerings from A&S and Drake’s are already at the point where at least some MTM options are competitive. It seems that it might be most economical to try MTM or perhaps one of the cheaper bespoke city tailors.
At the moment I’m considering trying Graham Browne or one of the cheaper MTM options you’ve covered (P Johnson or William Crabtree) for some flannels, since one’s money seems to go further on jackets.
Do you have any other suggestions?
I think that sounds sensible, as you’re clearly not an easy fit for RTW
I tried drake’s, they are great and fit well but the price is a little high. I ordered a pair from spencers trousers up north in yorkshire. £155 made to measure (they can copy your favourite pair of trousers)
They use Brisbane moss cloth and can order any fabric in from them. The best value I’ve seen! I’m not affiliated with the company just promoting British manufacturing!
Simon,
Are those Anglo-Italian shaved cotton chinos a right-hand twill or left-hand twill? Thanks!
I can’t remember but I’d guess left-hand. Denser, stronger chinos aren’t really what Anglo does