One of these days I’ll put together an editorial calendar. It always comes as a surprise when people start asking for advice on overcoats as the weather turns cold, but it shouldn’t. The same people ask for tips on luggage and swimming trunks in June.
So. Spurred by those requests, here are my tips on investing in a good winter overcoat.
Going by the questions posted in recent weeks on items like my Cifonelli cashmere coat and my Vergallo top coat, there is an even split between those looking for bespoke and those for ready-to-wear. The former will be more interested in unusual design details and cloths. But both should consider things like length, colour and material.
1. Get it long
Most overcoats are cut too short. A top coat should finish just above the knee, while a full overcoat should be a couple of inches below it. This is not just an old-fashioned rule. It’s both practical and stylish.
A shorter coat – most modern ones are around mid-thigh – does nothing to protect the legs from cold or rain. It simply fails to fulfil its function. And it has no style. It has no skirt, no swish, no movement as you walk. It just sits there, like a slightly awkward long jacket.
E.g.: Dunhill has a nice cashmere duffle coat this season. An overcoat should be at least this length.
2. Get it altered
One reason guys are afraid of longer coats is they are afraid of being drowned in a big piece of heavy material. Somehow being shorter means being fitted as well.
There is an easy solution – get it altered. It bewilders me that even men I have convinced to have their RTW suits altered don’t think to do so for their overcoats. A coat can fit well; it shouldn’t fit as close as a suit jacket, but it can be a great fit nonetheless. The only exception is deliberately roomy coats, eg a Loden.
E.g.: Cordings has some lovely Lodens in London, and reasonably priced.
3. Get it classic (in style)
There’s a reason most brands come out with variations on classic designs every year: great coats, covert coats, pea coats, duffle coats. They suit most functions and levels of formality a man requires, and they have a refined style that only comes with time.
Don’t feel bad about getting a standard coat. And if you’re going bespoke, start with a classic design and only make small changes.
E.g.: This is a classic from Ralph Lauren. It’s also a top coat; note the length.
4. Get it conservative (in colour)
Unless you plan on getting three or more good, investment overcoats, it’s worth being conservative with colour. Navy is number one, by some way. If it’s a formal coat, charcoal is probably second. Paler greys as you get more casual.
But don’t make the mistake many people make with fashion overcoats – and many first-time bespoke customers make with bespoke – and get an unusual colour. Your overcoat has to go with everything else. Including unusual suits, jackets and shoes.
E.g.: The only slightly unusual coat I have is my green coat from Vergallo, and that’s a very dark colour. I wouldn’t wear it with anything very unusual underneath, but then I have five overcoats…
5. Get it DB
Double-breasted overcoats look great, if they fit well. See ‘Get it altered’ above. If you’ve always shied away from a DB in a suit, try it in an overcoat. It’s also warmer.
Four of my five overcoats (Cifonelli, Gieves, Graham Browne, Stile Latino) are double breasted. Only one is not (Vergallo).
E.g.: See the bespoke Gieves & Hawkes pea coat for the beautiful line of a DB front edge.
6. Get it bespoke
No one seems to believe me when I say how wonderful a bespoke overcoat is. How it’s just like the fantastic fit of a bespoke jacket – but bigger, more dramatic, more of that lovely cloth, more versatile (you’ll wear it every day, unlike your bespoke suits).
A structured, hand-padded chest wrapped around you. A structured collar that will go up and stay up. Most of all, the sculpting of the whole silhouette. Your overcoat does fit, but only in the same way a ready-made suit can fit adequately well.
I’m going to shut up now.
E.g.: Of all the coats I’ve had made, the Graham Browne herringbone was probably the best in this regard. But a new Edward Sexton looks very exciting….
Also:
- Be classic, but experiment with little things (belts, cuffs)
- Go for a heavy wool, not synthetic. And heavy cashmere if you ever can. It’s amazing.
- Avoid a raglan sleeve unless you really like the style. It’s usually pretty shapeless (although it does make it easier to fit over both a suit jacket and knitwear)
- Think about how you will wear the coat. Really wear it. Open mostly, or closed? Collar up or down? Scarf?
Pictured top and below: Cifonelli double-breasted cashmere overcoat. One of the few things that actually feels amazing every single time I put it on. And I put it on a few times a day – every day – at the moment.
I also love the design of the back (it’s worn with just a sweater below, so there’s a touch of excess cloth below the shoulders that is pulled up with a jacket). Cashmere from Harrison’s.
So many coats, so little variation.
I’m amazed that amongst all of those you haven’t tried a nice heavy vintage tweed Raglan coat.
One of those is getting close to the top of my wish-list. Especially useful for a less formal dresser like me.
Good point. A heavy tweed can be really nice. I’ve just always preferred smarter, more fitted coats, so no raglans or looser fits
Great article thanks Simon. Predictably I’m looking at a new overcoat as we come into the winter months. I work in a smart/casual office and already have a DB navy for times when I need to be smarter. I am now considering a RTW camel hair coat. From reading your blog I know that you had one made many years ago. My question is how much wear does/did this coat get compared to your other coloured overcoats? (given they were perhaps more conservative in colour). Thanks, Tom.
It was a poor decision at the time Tom – the colour was too unusual. But it was my only proper overcoat. If I could do things again, I would have that as my third coat, after navy and grey
I wondered if that might be case. I seem to wear alot of grey in my jackets & knitwear so a grey probably wouldn’t work. My navy DB seems too disconnected to my usual office attire of chinos or dark denim. I’m hoping that the camel coat can bridge the formality gap, due to the colour and the texture.
Yes, it may well work. Do consider: paler greys, dark greens, and tweeds
What about a Polo coat? I’m bias though having just had one made in navy
My Cifonelli is quite similar to a polo coat in style, but yes a pure polo coat can be very nice. A more modern, versatile version of an old great coat effectively
A bit of a GB herringbone-fest going on at the moment; today I am wearing a Smith herringbone which Russell made for me about 6 years ago. Points to mention are that it still fits perfectly(remarkable!) and despite a lot of wear it still looks brand new.
Thanks, versatility was one of the main considerations, and I did take some influence from your Cifonelli overcoat. I don’t dress super formally all the time so wanted something that worked with jeans and chinos as well as a suit which I don’t think a longer over coat does so well. Saying that my next coat will almost certainly be a grey DB overcoat. But that is a couple of projects down the line.
I like your idea on a calendar, but with bespoke lead times, you have to be thinking a season if not a season and a half a head. It is rather strange looking at heavy flannels in the heights of summer!
Indeed. The key is usually to think in the exact opposite season of the one you’re in. It can take up to six months to have something made, and better to be early than late.
Phew! A not so timely article as I’ve already started my coat, for once I am starting to get my timing right. I think this is more to do with how much of a wardrobe people have already. If you have a good basis of a wardrobe you focus more on replacing and refining than building
I seem to have ticked all of your boxes, although I am still undecided on length, I’m just not sure where all the extra material is going to go if I am sitting on the tube for example? Well it’s being cut long on the basis you can always cut it shorter.
We’ve still got a lot of details to sort though, getting the collar right to wear up and down, the pockets and how to have the pleats.
Would you recommend post box pockets like you Cifonelli?
Coats are fundamentally not designed to sit down in. If you have it short enough to sit in, you end up with a jacket.
Car coats were invented for that reason and they look ugly….
Coats can be shortened, but DB a lot easier than SB. The former is just a straight line around the bottom. The latter requires a curve to be re-cut all the way down, which doesn’t always look great
Thanks Simon, we’ll decide on the length at the first fitting (it is a DB). I still can’t decide if it is an overcoat or topcoat that I need for London weather and commuting. I was moving toward a topcoat but maybe an overcoat would be better.
Have it made as an overcoat. You can always shorten it later
Hi Simon,
If I am going to wear a scarf with my overcoat, how should the design change?
Thanks
It’s more that you should consider everything about how it is going to be worn and used – with a scarf affecting how big the opening is for example
Simon, I really like the idea of a true Loden coat. Would you please address a bit more about the quality, model, and length of the Cordings Loden coat? It looks like the color of the Cordings Loden is that very deep,dark green which is essential.
Yes, the colour is bang on Scott. I don’t have the length to hand, but it’s worth phoning and asking – they are always very helpful. From what I recall it was slightly on the short side, but obviously depends how tall you are.
The quality of the cloth and other materials is very good. You don’t get any fancy handwork or finishing with Cordings, but it’s a solid product and good value.
Thank you sir! In your opinion Simon what is the appropriate length for for a proper Loden coat? Normally I like my overcoat to be long which for me is mid calf at a minimum.
How do you choose the fabric weight for a coat?
I am looking to get a dark brown single breasted coat made and from a colour perspective (sorry, but I am a girl) by far the best is a 520g wool from Scabal but as someone who feels the cold I am concerned that this isnt substantial enough for a UK winter. I note that others on your peacoat thread mentioned much heavier fabrics but when looking through the bunches (Scabal, W Bills and 2 others) there wasnt much above 20oz
Yes 520 is a bit light. There are more overcoatings out there though. The W Bill overcoatings bunch goes up to 725 certainly
Haven’t you asked your tailor? He ought to be able to find one for you. That’s what he’s there for!
What do you think about ordering a coat as first bespoke item? (Assuming a closet full of RTW clothes without the need for basics)
Absolutely fine, particularly if you rarely wear a suit
And Fox I’m looking at right now is at 900
Simon, really interesting piece. I wonder if you could expand a bit on raglan sleeves? I’ve always found them very practical (for instance on my raincoat and Barbour) because they’re flexible enough to work with both a suit or knitwear or just a shirt. Are they not typically used on overcoats?
They’re a lot harder to cut, and generally don’t bring the best out of bespoke – because the fit can vary so much
Simon, as with Tom I remember the camel polo coat (2009), you didn’t include it in the list – a shame as I quite liked it. Do you still have it, it seems just the thing for winter country walks. Taking a long overview of the blog it seems that you have moved from classical, English inspired pieces to a more contemporary, stylish (and perhaps more Italian) look – would you agree? Also (third time lucky) would you consider a Covert coat to be more of a top coat (despite its ancestory), therefore above the knee in length? One last point, coats can take a beating in winter; what care do you recommend for yours?
I found the camel coat to be too unusual in colour, super heavy, and too formal in cut unfortunately.
I think that’s fair on the general direction, yes. I still wear a lot of English tailoring, but it tends to depend on weather and circumstance. It makes so much sense – Neapolitan is the only thing that works with jeans; English looks so much sharper for formal events.
A covert could be a top coat length, yes
Hello Simon, I had a quick question regarding the weight of your polo coat. You said that it was super heavy, however, as I recall, the fabric was only 20oz which is lighter than your Cifonelli cashmere. Do you think camelhair should be lighter to work better? The reason I ask is that I just ordered one to be made the fabric I chose is a 21oz Harrisons. Thanks.
That weight will be fine. One of the reasons that coat felt pretty heavy was the length and the construction (as a traditional English tailor GB used heavy canvassing all the way down the front, and shoulder pads)
Love my Cordings covert coat. Have had it for nearly ten years. It’s not warm enough, however, to wear over a suit in between November and February. It’s really only a shoulder season coat, sadly. I’ve a Brooks Brothers cashmere overcoat, which I also love. It’s so good it’s stopped me getting a new bespoke overcoat these past three winters. Grrrr!!! Nice article, Simon.
Hi Simon, I noticed that the RL top coat has shorter sleeves which shows the cuffs. What do you think of this? Aren’t coat sleeves suppose to be longer to actually protect the shirt/jacket and you from the cold and dirt?
Someone asked that on Instagram as well. Traditionally yes, the coat should cover the jacket and shirt to protect them both.
But there’s nothing wrong with having them a little shorter if you want to occasionally show some jacket or shirt. Indeed if you have a relatively light top coat, and wear it mostly with a shirt or knitwear, then the coat sleeves can look good showing a bit of shirt/sweater in the same way a jacket looks good showing a bit of shirt.
Thanks for a great piece with excellent points. I am wondering, slightly OT perhaps, why you have never written about trench coats? Aren’t those worth having made bespoke? Or have I missed a piece on that?
Not really worth having bespoke, no. Because they wouldn’t have a chest canvas and shoulder padding anyway, and they are meant to fit loose or be cinched to a certain extent – so no benefit in either make or fit.
Also tricky to worth with waterproofs, as the seams have be stitched into glue or be sealed on the inside
Hi Simon
I’ve commissioned a peacoat with the original intention being to have the ability to button all the way up. I’ve been advised that it would be better if it was made up so that it was not buttoned to the top, so that the top would always be open. What are your views on this? I’d always thought peacoats were suppose to button to the top and , if I’m not mistaken, you have a preferences for both jackets and coats to have the ability to be buttoned fully.
Absolutely. Did they give any reasons for not having it button all the way up? It means the lapel will be quite large, but otherwise there are no disadvantages
No reasons apart from it would look better. The cloth I’ve chosen will work in a casual context, it’s a Holland and Sherry boiled wool 20oz in a dark green. Given that it will always be worn casually, my initial preference was to have the ability to button all the way up. I think I’ll ask for this to be the case, it was only ordered this morning. I asked for a shirt shoulder , which I’ve seen on the tailors jackets and was very impressed. In fact, he let me try on one of the jackets he had and I have to say, I was blown away. Incredibly comfortable.
How much does the cashmere alone cost for this coat? It looks really great and I am wondering if I could afford something similar.
What are your thoughts on fur or quilted linings in overcoats? I have a lovely cashmere DB overcoat from Eidos, but it’s just not warm enough for the New York winter (especially in recent years when the term “polar vortex” entered the lexicon.)
I’ve been debating commissioning something in a very thick Harris tweed but it’s probably going to be too heavy and still not as warm as a parka.
It feels like an admission of defeat to wear a parka over tailored clothing, so I’m wondering about getting a removable liner made for an overcoat. Do you think this could work, or will it just add too much bulk?
It could definitely work, but bulk will certainly be a problem.
What kind of lining do you have on this coat and your cashmere sportsjacket? Maybe this is fully lined and the sportsjacket is half lined?
Yes, correct on both
Hi Simon
Are you aware of any differences in an Italian peacoat (cabano) and an English one? I’m still trying to figure out why it has been suggested to me that the peacoat shouldn’t button up to the collar. Perhaps a difference in approach between England and Italy.
All coats of that ilk were intended to button all the way up. It’s what made them so practical against the elements (equally tall collar = protection against wind and rain around the neck)
Worth mentioning the exceptional range of coats (even if only for style inspiration) of your advertiser PAUW Mannen. Great examples of current, beautifully tailored outerwear (I have no connection to them). Simon, I also followed the link to A&S Haberdashery and am intrigued by their cashmere hanks/pocket squares; have you tried them if so how do they contrast/compare to other materials in texture and folding form? Additionally I wanted to commend the growing depth of the site and the ability to cross-research different subjects (subject boxes at bottom of article). Excellent piece of web design!
Thanks. Yes, I have tried the cashmere hanks and use them – particularly in winter in cream, as a softer, warmer and more casual take on white linen. See my Harris tweed jacket next to the river tweed
Hi Simon,
This is an excellent post! Thanks for the very useful and sartorial tips.
John
This may not really appeal to the relatively affluent PS audience, but I’ve always found it’s worth looking to the vintage market for overcoats – especially if you want several in rotation and don’t relish the thought of investing your life savings in a single season piece.
The winters get down to a chilly -40 here in Ulaanbaatar, and they last from October to May, so overcoats are a big deal for we fools who choose to live here. We dropped below zero for the first time this week, which sent me on an eBay binge that resulted in the purchase of a near mint Loden from Lodenfrey Munich and a Barbour Border with a couple of decades of character pounded into it. The total bill was less than $100, which might be just enough to pay for a single sleeve of a bespoke winter coat 🙂 Vintage isn’t for everyone, but it’s worth thinking about if you’re on a budget.
Dear Simon,
following your posts on this website is always a pleasure and a great possibility to learn new things – thanks for sharing your knowledge, opinions and suggestions. There is one question which comes again and again to my mind, each and every time the topic of “versatile colors” is mentioned in your posts.
I’ve got the freedom not to be bound by any dress code rules – free to wear anything I like. You are (for obvious reasons) frequently referring to navy, grey and other “cold” colors. The problem is that these colors rather make me (or anybody with a bit warmer skin tone) look “sick”.
Is it in your opinion possible to build up a wardrobe (in particular a conservative one) based on “warm” colors (dark greens, browns, burgundy, tan, …) avoiding the black/grey/blue/white altogether? Or do you consider such colors too “casual” (as they also frequently come with rather rustical cloths)?
A pity I am not in the army. Olive green seems to be the perfect color.
Thanks in advance for any insights…
It is perfectly possible to find a balance Lubos. I can write more on this at another stage. You don’t want to abandon grey, navy and white, but keep warmth elsewhere – eg in a tie or shoe. Or if you wear a lot of green or brown, keep balance with a smarter white shirt and navy tie.
I hope that makes sense
Thanks Simon, indeed it makes sense. An extended post on the topic would of course be highly appreciated, should you find time for it someday in the future…
You mention navy as a first choice colour for a coat. Is that due to versatility? What colour suit underneath would be a poor match for a navy coat.? I guess black for starters ….
Yes, mostly versatility. it would work with most colours of suit, though grey would deal better with stronger colours
Not really on the subject but I was admiring your glasses.
What is the make and model?
Francois Pinton, Paris.
I’ve got another question on proper weight for overcoats. I’ve got brave Canadian/ mid-west American winters, so I’m looking for heavy enough overcoat.
Trouble is I see a lot of suiting fabrics in the winter weight range of 350-500 gr that would be really nice if they were an overcoat, but I’m not sure they would be warm enough. When I look at the 500+ range, there tend to be a lot of more boring solids – so is there anything I could do to better winterize the lower weight fabrics? Extra linings or anything?
So what mills would you recommend for nice heavier weights and/or what else can I do to make the lighter fabrics workable?
Not that much you can to ‘winterise’ really. Heavy linings won’t make much difference. W Bill and Fox are good starting points for heavy weights
what is the price for the purple coat and the price
Simon, In winter I tend to wear a lot of v or crew neck jumpers over a button down with smart denim and chukka boots. I’d really like a Cordings covert coat. Do you think it would work with what I usually wear ?
I think it might be a big too smart Justin. I’d get something woolier and looser
Thanks for the reply. I already have a nice Donegal tweed peacoat. Should I stick to items like that ?
Probably yes. Although anything with more texture could also work, being more casual
Hi,
I like the idea of getting a nice navy overcoat for the London winter. I’ve set my budget around £800.
Can you give me some recommendations in that price range?
I’m considering this Burberry one: https://uk.burberry.com/wool-cashmere-melton-coat-with-warmer-p39414991
Thoughts?
Not bad, fairly basic. I’m afraid I know nothing of how or with what’s it’s made, so I’m just commenting on style and there’s not much there to comment on
Hello Simon,
This is an addictive site for me! Keep up the great work!
My question is concerning my overcoat, for which the shoulders are a bit too wide. Mindful that shoulder alterations for coats are rather tricky when narrowing, may I ask please if there are any alterations specialists that you can recommend for narrowing the shoulders of my overcoat?
I have read this establishment, but I am not entirely sure: http://www.alterationsboutique.co.uk
Many thanks in advance
I’d use a tailor, eg Graham Browne in London, if you could. Risky and difficult though, as you say
The best alteration tailor in London is Tosca in Lower Sloane Street
Hi Simon, as an avid reader of this site, I regularly look to you as the source of inspiration and to provide guidance in my purchasing decisions. For example I am now a regular customer of Meermin, and regularly revert to some principles you talk about. As you may have guessed, (Mermin over Edward Green or Gaziano) unfortunately I am rather constrained by my budget at the moment having recently purchased an apartment. My wardrobe is therefore full of RTW Tyrwhitt suits and TM Lewin shirts which have been altered to provide a “good” fit, albeit a significant compromise to the ideal. I am looking to take my first foray into overcoats having used the more crossover look previously of Barbour’s and so forth. Whilst I would love to take tip 6, I have a budget constraint of £400-£500 and was hoping you could provide some guidance for this price bracket as I am struggling to find one at the moment which is not too short, poorly cut etc. Thanks in advance for your help, Edward
Thanks Edward, nice to hear it’s all coming in useful. I don’t have many recommendations in that price area I’m afraid – other than having it altered, as above, and other points on colour and fit
Simon, is a covert coat an overcoat or topcoat? If it is true that the traditonal covert coat colour exists (I’m unsure what name is accurate), do you judge it too light, since you favour navy, gray, etc.? I have a covert coat as well as a whipcord raglan coat
from N&L. The covert coat pocket lining and pocket flaps need repair, the whipcord soon showed problems. Would you consider Benson & Clegg RTW covert coat at £500 preferably at sale price reduction a good investment?
Usually a top coat based on weight, but there are variations.
Covert is not too light, but can be more casual given the colour and country associations
Great article. I purchased a few vintage overcoats and took before and after photos. Your advice to alter the overcoats helped me so much. I never considered it until I read your article. I posted the photos on Instagram, please check it out and let me know what you think if possible. My Instagram is @cigarsandsuits
I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback
Anyways, happy holidays.
For the sleeve length, should it be a bit longer than a tailored jacket, or should it be about the same? This has always been tricky for me as I don’t want the sleeves too long or too short. I’m thinking the sleeves should stop where the wrist and hand connect but I’m not sure. Any help would be much appreciated.
Traditionally, at least an inch longer than the jacket, to protect it and the shirt cuff
Hi Simon,
Apologies for going off-topic here – just wondering what your experience of the green loden SB coat has been? Does the colour really work with a suit?
Cheers,
Anon
Hi. It’s been very good. We never found a satisfactory way to button the lapels closed at the top, but that’s a minor point.
Yes, it works with a suit, given how dark the green is. But it’s always going to be more unusual and slightly more dandy than regular navy or grey coat
Thanks Simon. Works better with grey suit than navy suit I guess?
Yes, though you don’t see much of the suit in any case most of the time
I realise this is a bit late of a comment so apologies, but I would appreciate the advice. I was given a DB overcoat the other day. It’s about my size but a little large in the body – I’m quite skinny. Do you think a tailor would be able to add a vent like the one on your Cifonelli coat? If not do you have any thoughts on the best way to reduce the volume of the coat other than the usual taking-in? The only reason is I have a preference for something a bit unique and I thought this might offer me an opportunity.
You might well be able to add some pleats in the back, yes. Worth asking a tailor
Hi Simon –
Is 46 inches a good length for an overcoat? Or is that traditionally too short?
I’m six feet tall
Is it a touch below the knee? That’s traditional overcoat length
Dear Simon – I am sure there is reference to this somewhere on your site, but I am having no luck finding it. A while ago, I read about a very particular Italian wool used for overcoats which had the appearance of boiled wool, but which wasn’t. I think it came from northern Italy somewhere and I seem to recall got its distinctive ‘bobbly’ look by being rubbed by stones or beaten on rocks, or something similar. I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called. Are you able to help – even with so little information to go on? Reading your site has got me thinking about getting a coat made and a neutral colour in a very distinctive texture could be the way forward for me.
Casentino. Traditional material for coats in Tuscany. I’m not a fan myself, but it is unusual
Many thanks Simon. Let’s see if I’m brave enough when it comes to making the decision!
Hi Simon,
Any advise on coats that you can wear over your suit in the spring? I already have a wool overcoat for fall and winter and am currently looking at some mac coat options. Only concern i’m having is the breathability of certain macs due to their bonded cotton fabric. I’m looking for something simple, timeless and wears cool in spring. Waterproof would be a nice bonus.
Lightweight raincoats are nice – given most other coats will be too warm and if very light in the material, won’t hang well. Not all overcoats are bonded cotton either, some are waxed or treated in various different ways.
You’re lucky that lightweight raincoats are very popular at the moment, so there is a range out there from Hackett, Ralph Lauren, E Tautz etc. I also particularly like the cotton ventile ones from Private White.
Hi Simon,
I wanted to ask for your advice on a Black peak lapel SB topcoat/overcoat. Reason I got black was that I have many navy coats…… You have always stated black to be a too strong of a colour so I was wondering what colour trouser/chinos I can wear with the black overcoat? I can only think of charcoal trousers….and I tend to hear from people black and navy dont go together? So navy chinos, navy trousers dont work?
In terms of shoes, can one wear brown shoes with the black overcoat? or do one have to stick to black shoes?
I think I have made an mistake in getting black…….
The best colours with black are grey of every shade, sometimes tan, and deep greens, purples etc. Overcoats have a little more
versatility than jackets, and navy trousers underneath would be fine, but I’d avoid anything but the darkest brown shoes.
Dear Simon.
Following on the comment above, I too have a black overcoat that I have been struggling to wear.
Your advice is to avoid anything but the darker Brown shoes…. But I assume I can wear black shoes since it matches the black overcoat?
Thanks gael
Yes absolutely
Hi Simon,
I’m looking for a scarf for a navy blue overcoat and an olive/brown parka. Do you think this one (https://www.drakes.com/scarves/navy-embroidered-animal-print-wool-and-silk-scarf) would look good or a different color than navy would be better? If yes, what is your advice?
Thank you
This would be very nice, and useful. If you want something else more unusual, perhaps look at dark green
Very helpful tips! I am currently having trouble for choosing two chesterfield coats. Both are black with 80% wool and 20% cashmere but one is with velvet collar and concealed button closure while the other one without velvet collar and centre button closure. Hope to receive your advice~
Small difference but velvet collar and fly front will have a little more of the dandy, a little more style – which you might like or not
Hi Simon,
A common theme throughout your writing on overcoats has been the need for them to work as well with knitwear as over a jacket. Your post on the Vergallo Loden coat for example features it being worn with a very nice rig of grey flannels and a navy sweater. I am curious to what extent you can wear an overcoat with more casual trousers like jeans and corduroys. I usually wear field jackets in the summer and a Barbour in the autumn/spring but for winter I currently only have a navy cashmere overcoat that is far too dressy for non-wool trousers.
The most obvious solution would probably be a pea-coat but the double breasted style does little to flatter me so I’m looking instead at more casual, shorter coats like this grey tweed from Magee (http://www.ahume.co.uk/uploads/images_extra_large/4940_1.jpg). They also do a brown tweed (http://www.ahume.co.uk/uploads/images_extra_large/4941.jpg) but I feel the grey is a little more urban and less rustic.
Do you think either of these coats are a viable option for casual winter wear, or am I doomed to wear a Northface insulated montrosity in the colder months? I’ll be wearing it with my usual cold-weather staples like dark denim or cords, crew-neck sweaters, oxford cloth shirts and suede chukkas.
I don’t particularly like the cut of those styles, but you could happily wear an overcoat in a similar tweed material and it would be casual enough for more casual trousers. See, for example:
http://www.nomanwalksalone.com/index.php/clothing/outerwear/medium-brown-soft-tweed-herringbone-single-breasted-overcoat-21-oz-wool.html
or
http://www.nomanwalksalone.com/index.php/clothing/outerwear/grey-herringbone-soft-tweed-double-breasted-ulster-overcoat-21-oz-wool.html
Simon could you comment on sizing an overcoat to wear over suits and sport coats?
I’m looking at some very nice vintage peacoats (bridge length, so falling near the knees). I wear a 38S (48 EU) jacket. Vintage items are often advertised with measurements and the peacoat I favour is 19 inches from shoulder seam to shoulder seam across the back. My sport coats are around 17.5 inches on the same measurement.
Is having about 3/4 inch more width on each shoulder adequate? I know it’s hard to say without seeing the coat on me but does this sound to tight or loose in the shoulder?
Hi Peter. It sounds like that should be ok, but I’d put a lot of caveats on that – given how small the measurement is, a small difference in how the garments are measured could mean that they end up being pretty much the same size. To be safe you’d really want more difference, and to be honest if you’re buying that precisely I wouldn’t buy online.
I am thinking about have an overcoat made bespoke. I wonder if you think that cashmere (like you have in your Cifonelli coat) can stand rain or other heavy and wet weather. What is your opinion of “traditional” heavy cashmere vs fabric like the Loro Piana Storm System?
Cashmere is wonderful, and will recover well if looked after even if soaked. But it will never be as hardy as pure wools or anything like Storm System. Go for cashmere if you’re prepared to look after it – including having an umbrella most of the time in heavy rain
What are the pros and cons of different pocket styles for an overcoat? I would like to be able to put my hands in them but also small items like my gloves
That won’t be very affected by the pocket style. You can use the pockets on any one, although a patch pocket will be able to take slightly more punishment without becoming misshapen
Hello Simon,
Would your advice on overcoats also apply to trench coats? I am curious to know what you wear to protect your suits from the rain.
Hi Simon,
Thank you for this very interesting post. I live in Rome but yet my clothes made in London – and thus on my next visit home wish to have a coat and a couple of sports jackets made.
In terms of coats, I currently only have a blue double breasted coat, as I recently abandoned an ill-fitting rust coloured casentino and another in camelhair. I imagine you would recommend either a navy or grey as a logical replacement, but what about brown or dark green? My wardrobe does not have to be particularly business-like, on a side note.
I have a few sports jackets, but they are mostly browns in various patterns. I figured navy would be an obvious choice, and since I am keen to add some green to my winter wardrobe, do you think a green sports coat in a plain wool/cashmere fabric would be best, rather than a green overcoat and say navy/tobacco jacket combination?
Thank you for your help and advice,
Tom
I think navy would be the best option for the coat, yes. So versatile. But if you want green have a look at my loden coat from Vergallo
I’m looking to purchase a RTW coat as I’m moving to somewhere actually cold for the first time. Do you have a recommendation in terms of chest ease for a well-fitted coat? A roomier one?
Hi Simon.
Very useful information. I am just in the process of getting my first bespoke overcoat made. I am going for a fairly standard Navy Cashmere. After reading this article, and others, I have decided to go double breasted but the one point I was unsure on was the decision around whether to go for 6×2 or 6×3 buttons and what this decision meant for the formality or otherwise of the coat. I am looking for something standard, simple, plain and formal.
Could you perhaps discuss some of the thoughts that should go into making this decision. I have not really found a good source of info. 6×2 “seems” more common these days but I am not really clear on why or which would be better for different uses, or if this is just a purely personal decision of style.
Tks!
I’d go for 6×2, definitely. More classic, more formal, what you’re looking for essentially.
Hi Simon,
You touched upon Love Cashmere and how you’ve had knits that was affected by moths but have you had any problems with your cashmere Cifonelli DB or any other cashmere coats/jackets? I’m planning to get a cashmere overcoat and was wondering how you store your cashmere overcoats especially your Cifonelli one? In a suit bag?
I’ve had issues with moths and knits before but as I do not own any cashmere overcoat-Im scarred the overcoat will get affected!
Any advice would be really helpful!
I haven’t had any issues, thankfully. It gets worn so frequently during winter that it’s not a problem, and then I just brush it down and spray with a moth killer, before putting in a breathable garment bag for the summer
Can you recommend any good moth killer?
The Acana ones work for me:
http://www.johnlewis.com/browse/home-garden/utility-room/moth-repellent/_/N-e9h
Simon love the blog and really enjoyed this article. I am still struggling with the overcoat purchase though so if you or any of your readers can give me some advice would be much appreciated! My requirements are basically:
1) I hate the cold and feel it terribly so warmth is my number one priority
2) The coat is likely to get 5 day a week use for 6 or so months a year plus it rains a fair bit here so going to get a fair work out…
Originally I was considering this from Suitsupply (http://eu.suitsupply.com/en_GB/coats/navy-overcoat/J452.html?cgid=Coats) but then I started to worry about the wear and tear of 100% cashmere and it felt very light (even accounting for cashmere being a lighter fabric). Plus there isn’t a lot covering the chest. I am thinking double-breasted, as you have suggested Simon, might work better for me.
Can anyone suggest what I should be looking for from a material perspective and/or anywhere that would sell something appropriate? Thanks very much!
Hi, Simon! Suddenly remembered your posts and comment sections around both your polo coat and herringbone DB overcoat, both by Graham Browne. However, you said at the time of this post (ca. October of 2015) that you only have 5 overcoats, citing only one GB. That must mean that you did away with one of them. By the looks of your conversations with other readers here, you chose to let go of the polo coat. What was it’s final fate, if you would not mind my asking?
Just rather curious about stories of where tailored articles go when they reach the end of the line, given that their owners must no doubt have formed strong attachments to them.
Hey. It went to a friend, who I believe still wears it.
Not ideal, and sad to see it go – but I did have others to love in its place by that time.
I see. Good to know at least that it has found a new home. Your friend must be quite accustomed to wearing heavier-built pieces, to have found regular use for it.
Ah, indeed, the emotions evoked when letting go of beloved clothes. Aside from the time and finances spent acquiring them, there’s also a lot of love of the parental sort, if nothing else.
On the flipside, your later overcoat projects have all been nothing short of stellar by comparison. Perhaps, the commissioning lessons from the polo coat were its parting gifts, which have served you well.
Hello Simon, Fox has this camel coating on sale:
http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/prod/1034/limited-edition-cloth/camel-coating
Do you think at 500g it’s too light in weight for a Polo coat of proper overcoat length made up in Southern Italy?
Thanks and Happy Easter
Yes, I would say so. A top coat perhaps at most
Hi Simon,
For any all your overcoats, from your Cifonelli to Edward Sexton, how do you store them?
Do you use normal thin wooden hangers with no flare or do you invest in good quality hangers such as those from Hanger Projects- the ones with flare to hang all your overcoats?
Thanks
I have ones with some decent flair to them – any coat or jacket with decent shoulders needs some support. But I don’t have them sized to specific widths or sizes of flare
Hi Simon, I’m curious about weight / heft of material in overcoats / topcoats vs cold temperatures. Some background: I recently bought a cheap overcoat (Zara) that fits me great, looks great, but its wool content isn’t high, and even with a suit underneath, it could be worn probably only above 0 Celsisus / 32 Fahrenheit, or just below freezing. A longer navy overcoat I’ve had since the late 1980s (wool / cashmere blend, hidden buttons, to just below the knees, very classic piece, Crombie-style), even though wool with a little cashmere, it’s little better in the sub zero New York winter. Now, the real winner is a vintage peacoat (US Navy, probably from the Vietnam War era) that is 100% wool and is “durable as a brick shit house”. Its seems are incredibly strong, it’s very well made (bought for less than $50 10 years ago). It also has high lapels that are brilliant when popped against the wind. Problem is, it’s not ideal over a suit or sports jacket. So, my question is – are there any overcoats made anymore that have the heaviness of coats of previous eras? (I was in Drake’s the other day in NYC, and their peacoat, while lovely, is so light, it feels more like a scarf than a coat. I exaggerate, but I think the cashmere makes it so, if cashmere it is.) London / Dublin / Paris residents don’t usually have to commute in weather like in New York, or Toronto, for that matter. At a certain point, fashion has to go out the window, or does it? Thanks, David.
Hi David,
Interesting question. I don’t think fashion has to go out of the window, even in very cold temperatures, but the problem is that these things just aren’t made RTW any more. You could have, for example, a long overcoat made in wool almost as heavy as that pea coat of yours, and it would work very well. Double breasted for the chest, high collar, worn with long gloves, nice fur hat etc. Perhaps wool-lined boots.
If you can find these things, or have them made, then I think it can work very well. You can wear heavier trousers and heavier jackets underneath too, plus knitwear. Remember everyone used to do this in very cold temperatures, and work in non-air conditioned buildings. You see guys in 18-ounce suits plus knitwear, flannel shirt and tie, working indoors!
The only thing you’ll find you have to start putting up with is weight. But you do also get used to that over time.
Thanks, Simon, the layering / weight is key. The penny finally dropped – my pea coat is DB! Of course the wool is nice and heavy, but the DB adds a lot of warmth, silly me. 🙂 In overcoats, and in terms of heritage of a product, I haven’t seen you do a piece on Crombie. They do MTM, but don’t seem to do bespoke. Still, the heritage of the brand might justify a piece. I for one would be interested in reading it. All the best, David
Thanks David. Yes, there isn’t much link to the original Crombie any more, but they do some decent value RTW
That’s a pity, isn’t it, since the site heralds a kind of unbroken line to that heritage? (Worn by peers and royalty and the Beatles – as well as Mods and Skinheads, etc., etc.) But at least their RTW, as you say, seems good.
How would you suggest buying a coat if you are shorter/stockier. I find even the above the knee overcoats to make me look shorter. I am getting a SB coat made now in a 18oz cashmere for wearing over both sweaters and jackets. I am thinking about using a belt and pleat similar to the one you did in your Vergallo loden top coat. I was going to have it cut a little shorter than you suggest so that I don’t look too short, between mid thighs and just above the knee. Is this an awkward length?
I’d stick to just above the knee to be honest, yes. Try to accentuate height in other ways, such as a one button
Funny. Even with 132 posts there seems to be confusion about the categories of overcoat. Topcoats are exactly that and are designed and cut to fit over a jacket/suit and are generally in material of 24 ounces or more. In this case thicker and heavier doesn’t necessarily mean better as above 28 ounces the finer points of Bespoke become impractical. Overcoats are usually a lighter garment of 18 – 20 ounces that due to additional length fulfill the same function as a jacket but give additional protection to the legs neck and chest. Usually cut slightly roomier than a jacket they allow for unhindered use of scarfs..
Hi Simon,
Great post mate. I’m on the hunt for a classic navy overcoat and literally cannot find what I am looking for (within my price bracket) anywhere. As such, I’ve decided to go MTM.
I’m still considering whether to go DB or single breasted, but one feature I really want is for the collar to be able to be worn up (and to remain UP without flopping around or falling down).
What do you recommend in the way of collars and to ensure that my collar actually stay stiff and up?
Cheers!
That will usually be easier on a DB, as the collar and lapel wrap around more. Try not to pick too soft a cloth. And most importantly, try to try a RTW version from the same brand, with the salesman there, so you can see whether their normal make collar stands up anyway. It’s mostly down to how the collar is put together
In terms of formality, would you say a black overcoat is more desirable than charcoal or navy? I already have a fair few smart coats, but I am thinking of getting a bespoke overcoat made that I can wear travelling to evening events and at winter funerals, hence the appeal of going as dark as possible. My only worry is that a black overcoat might be seen as a faux pas, in the same way as a black suit would be.
Cheers,
F
Yes, I would avoid back generally. A navy would be very smart and formal.enough probably, and you’d get far wider use out of it
Hi Simon,
I am thinking about next winter commissions and a casual bespoke overcoat will be one of them.
It will be worn on weekends, only weekends.
What fabric do you recommend? What about tweed?
Would it look better on SB or DB?
Thanks.
Nice. Tweed would be great, yes, a dark brown or green Donegal maybe. DBs always look nicer in overcoats, but it would make it more dressy. SB would be safer
I would go along with most of your observations regarding DB overcoats but I have found that some the thicker and heavier cloths that are coming onto the bespoke market do not make up well into a peak lapels..
Hi Simon,
thank you very much for sharing this valuable information about overcoats.
I am looking for a new overcoat for the smart end of my wardrobe, and I think it should be a DB Chesterfield. But I am undecisive about the colour: navy or grey?
Do you think navy is formal enough for the top end, i.e. to be worn with black tie on some occasions?
Or does that only leave grey (or even only charcoal, if medium grey is still to casual to be combined with a dinner suit)?
I don’t wear black tie often, only a few times per year. Most of the time the overcoat will be worn with a suit to the office.
Thanks a lot in advance for your thoughts on that.
Best regards,
F. Gerd
I’d go with grey – yes, fine with black tie most of the time (particularly given you’ll almost never be seen in it at an event) and the most versatile colour otherwise
Hello, Simon. Long time follower of your blog. I live in a cold and wet part of the world and as such I’m interested in buying an overcoat that goes past the knees slightly (which I agree, looks very elegant). I don’t often wear suits so at most I would likely have a sweater or cardigan under it. Do you think it’s a good idea for me to have a overcoat made that is very fitted to the body like a tailored suit would be, or is it better to ensure it’s larger and can accommodate a suit under it? This leads onto my second question which is do you think shorter men should stay away from longer coats? I’m 5’6″ and have been told several times that shorter men should not by long coats as it is unflattering to them. This upsets me as shorter coats are not nearly as stylish, practical or interesting. I think that as long as I have a long coat that is tailored to fit me well, isn’t bulky and is conservative in design and colour I should be able to rock it.
Appreciate your work,
Maxwell.
Thanks Max.
If you mostly wear just knitwear, I would err on the side of fitted, yes, but good if you can just about get a suit underneath too. There’s always a bit of compromise from that point of view with coats.
Long coats can make a short man look shorter, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get one – just be aware of the potential downside. It’s also not that hard to shorten a bespoke coat
Hi Simon
I am planning on getting a bespoke double breasted overcoat for winter in Tokyo – I will go for 100% wool as I fear that cashmere may be too light and not as durable. What is an appropriate weight range for the cloth keeping in mind that I usually wear 11-13 oz suits?
Hi Julien,
I’d be aiming for 20oz and over
Hi Simon! Although you are more familiar with bespoke coats, I wanted to ask, if you could suggest some rtw manufacturers, who make good coats/pea coats? Looking for one at the moment, as winter is slowly coming and would appreciate some suggestions.
thanks!
Very timely question Justin – our next collaboration might fit the bill perfectly… there will be some things on social media soon
Great! Thanks for the update! Looking very much forward to more information and will try to keep myself from impulse purchases.
No worries. It will be very nice I promise…
You won’t believe it but a coat by Private White was at the top of my list before I wrote my first question. And now that I see the collaboration coming, I hope I will not miss it.
Oh good.
And don’t worry, there will be plenty of lead up and notice on Instagram
Sorry, was a bit unclear here – will try to keep myself from impulse purchases till that time 🙂 I am sure the collaboration will be of a high standard!
I am 5 ft 7. So does I look short wearing knee-length coat?
It could make you look a little shorter, yes. If it’s something you’re conscious of, then you could go with one that’s just above the knee instead
Hi Simon,
In most pictures I’ve seen on your blog of overcoats you’re wearing your collar up. Could for instance the Cifonelli overcoat be worn with collar down, and still look as good, or was it designed to be worn that way and that way only (which I think is the case with your Edward Sexton, since the lapels with collar down, to my taste, are way over the top but looks alright with collar up)? If so, what does it change in the general design?
As well, with your experience, if you could have only one overcoat, are there some point you would definitely recommend or avoid? For instance, cashmere over wool, or wool and cashmere mix, pocket style, a different fabric for the collar (like a chesterfield) etc?
No it looks good with the collar down too, I just like the style of it up.
On the other points, if you only have one, I’d definitely go for wool, DB, navy, standard every other detail
Hi Simon,
thanks for the great article about coats.
I am planning my first bespoke overcoat and I am undesisive about the colour: navy or charcoal?
It will be a (single or double breasted) Chesterfield and most probably it will be the smart end of my overcoat wardrobe for many years, so the main question is: would navy be smart enough to go with a dinner suit? Or would you recommend charcoal instead?
Thanks a lot in advance for your opinion and advice.
I’d stick with navy, more versatile
Hi Simon,
I wanted your thoughts on buttons for coats, Im a big fan of beautiful details and I find silver/gold buttons on coats to up its elegance but most of the time these days I find those details more common on womens coats ?
I find putting metal buttons on a lot of my clothes really improves the overall look.
What do you think of gold/silver vs horn/plastic
Thanks !
Jason
Hi Jason,
Have a look at my pea coat made at Gieves & Hawkes. I used vintage brass buttons originally, which were very cool, but over time (seen in a later, update post) I switched to dark horn because I just found the brass too showy. I’d avoid metals like that generally.
Reminded of when I was looking for my first long overcoat, at age 18. My father, God bless him, who grew up during the Depression and had an aversion to everything from that time period because he and his family were poor, insisted on a “finger tip length coat,” and forbade me a longer one. Even then, with much less knowledge of style, I thought that they were of no value for warmth, and looked half-baked, shall we say. Never did buy one of those, and never will. At or below the knee, and preferably double-breasted, all the way!
Simon,
Thank you for your great articles & helpful posts on overcoats. I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the US where cold weather months are not extreme. Perhaps once per winter season we’ll travel a week or two in northern climes with freezing temps. I contacted Joseph Genuardi, whom you recently gave positive reviews in your New York Bespoke article, to commission an overcoat.
I will gratefully take your advice and go with DB Navy, classic style, length below the knee (6X2 button design in dark brown horn) and when it comes to fabric (cashmere vs wool vs hybrid) I’ll decide when I’m face-to-face talking with Joseph and reviewing his swatches. I like the idea of achieving a sculpted silhouette with this long coat. I will discuss with Joseph how snug the fit should be to include half-lining and other details for less extreme winters. I’ll wear only MTM suits/jackets and knitwear underneath so I’d like to sculpt as much as practical while keeping in mind that I want this coat to be conservative. Joseph indicated his overcoats start at $3,300. That seems like a good deal to me. I appreciate reading all your articles because the more I read the more I learn and can combine data from your various posts to make informed conclusions.
One data point that I haven’t found…. do you ask for higher arm holes in your overcoats to help with the silhouette?
Great.
No higher than on a jacket, and proportionally even lower to allow the jacket sleeve to sit comfortably within it
Is there a suggested/classic/proper button size for a DB overcoat?
Hi Simon, I’ve a question about an apparently vintage top coat I just picked up. It’s SB, Harris Tweed. It has the Harris Tweed Orb / mark of quality label, but no brand label and no care labels, and other than the Harris label, no labels at all. It’s half-lined and the seams are all cleanly done. The brown, bulbous buttons seem to be typical of the ’70s. Do you know of bespoke makers who wouldn’t put their label on the interior of the coat? I think I’m overhopeful in that regard. Anyway, it’s certainly vintage, and a v. nice piece. Thanks!
Hey David.
Sounds like it’s probably not bespoke unfortunately – a tailor would pretty much always have their label on the inside pocket.
You can look for stitch marks of a hand-padded lapel on its reverse as well perhaps.
Sounds like a lovely piece either way though
Hi Simon, I just got it back from the local seamstress, who was mending a tiny rip, and I’m thrilled with the coat – it has a nice line to it, hangs v. well, shoulders and fit are superb, and the colour (variegated greys and blues and bits of black and a few lighter blues showing up) is great. At first in terms of weight to the eye it looks to be a lighter top coat, but the tweed has a lovely heaviness which will come in handy. Also, in style terms it doesn’t have any of the sins of cheaper RTS overcoats and none of the peccadilloes of vintage styles from previous eras. So all in all a great find.
Hello, Simon.
Thank you for the incredible resource that you’ve created here at Permanent Style. I really enjoy your writing. I’d love to ask you about an overcoat I’m considering purchasing this season and would appreciate any thoughts you may have.
I live in Boston and my wardrobe is casual (I most often wear 5-pocket pants/jeans and a bespoke button-down shirt and sometimes trousers with a jacket — both with Cleverly George loafers or a similarly casual shoe). As I continue to build my wardrobe I’d like to add more trousers and knits, but would only wear a jacket a handful of times each month. Right now, I don’t have a proper coat and am looking for something under $1k USD. What are your thoughts on this coat from Sage de Cret (which you’ve reviewed briefly on the blog before)?
https://nomanwalksalone.com/convertible-collar-long-coat-in-dark-olive-melton-wool.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgMCs97Sz5QIVCpyzCh1bbAlKEAYYASABEgK4L_D_BwE
It’s also available at Barney’s in navy: https://www.barneys.com/product/sage-de-cr-c3-aat-wool-blend-four-button-coat-506337646.html
I appreciate your time, Simon.
Thanks Jake.
The coat looks very nice. A useful colour in olive and a good length. I think it’s worth trying in person if you can to make sure you like the cut, as it looks like it would be quite drapey. Or phone the guys at NMWA to get their thoughts, they’re always very helpful
Thank you, Simon. Have you had an opportunity to handle either the peacoat or country coat from Anglo Italian? I’m considering both of those as alternatives and would be interested to hear your thoughts regarding weight and versatility.
I haven’t, no. Sorry Jake
Hi Simon,
I just commissioned a bespoke sb coat. It is a lovely Porter and Harding Harris Tweed fabric, with a muted greenish/brown color, with red, blue and even pink shades.
It is not a heavy fabric (450 grs) , perfect for Spanish winter.
I was not totally sure about the fabric so I visited my tailor when he received it, just to make sure I didn’t make a mistake. This is something I strongly recommend.
Cheers, J.
Good to know with overcoat season here. Thanks J
Hi Simon,
Why shouldn’t a first overcoat just be a pea coat instead of a notch lapel overcoat? Is it because the pea coat is more unusual than the longer plain overcoat? Thanks
Because a pea coat is more narrowly casual. It wouldn’t be appropriate over a suit in most places. A standard overcoat is more versatile
What about a dark brown overcoat? Is it formal enough for business (only navy blue and charcoal grey suits)?
Should be, yes, though depends a little on your business and office.
Does the colour recommendation stay the same with very dark suits? I mean charcoal grey and very deep brown. Should I focus on navy above all others or consider a light grey or tan, same as if I was choosing an odd jacket to contrast dark odd trousers?
Good point. No, I wouldn’t use the same guidelines as contrasting a jacket with trousers. Because the coat is so big.
So yes, keep the coat quite dark
hello simon, is your view on overcoat length still that is should be a couple inches below the knee (midpoint or base of knee?). I see some of your recent overcoat commissions appear a bit higher. But it is hard to tell from photos sometimes.
Yes, in general an overcoat is nicest when an inch or two below the knee (base).
But:
– This is overcoats, not topcoats. Something in a lighter weight, perhaps single breasted, aimed at being worn not in the depths of winter, could be higher.
– It depends a little on the wearer’s height. A shorter man might prefer something a little shorter, to avoid looking swamped
Hi Simon, what are your thoughts on front darts on more formal top coats? Do you have front darts on any of your overcoats and would you recommend that look? Thanks!
I think they look fine – I’ve never been that bothered about them. My Michael Browne coat has front darts for instance.
Hi Simon, what do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of adding buttons to the vent of a bespoke overcoat? My tailor advised against adding buttons at the vent, saying a bespoke overcoat should be balanced and not require buttons there. I’m not sure if he’s trying to make things easier for himself.
Hard to guess his motivations, but they’re not something you’re really going to do up and undo. They just look nice, a nice touch of craft.
Perhaps one without them looks a bit cleaner and smarter, hence they’re used more on Ulsters, more with buttoned half belts etc.
Hi Simon,
what about covert coats? Have you ever comissioned one?
Thanks,
No I haven’t. Always felt a little smart, and perhaps a little old-fashioned. But that’s obviously very subjective and cultural
In my opinion it is easy to tell when a coat is too big but I find it difficult to tell when a coat is too tight over a suit. Do you have some tips on how a coat should fit over a suit and where you can best tell if a coat is the right size?
There are some thoughts here, if you’re interested
I am considering buying a made to measure overcoat (this will be my first, granted), and instead of navy, I’m thinking about using a darker black watch tartan. Do you think this is a mistake?
I was then hoping to purchase a navy Gloverall duffle.
I think that might be a mistake yes, sorry. It might be quite cool, but personally I think overcoats need to be very versatile, as they need to go with everything underneath. And it would be very noticeable – like only having one jacket, in blackwatch, and wearing that every day.
Keep it for a third or fourth coat.
Hello Simon, I never had a Jacket coats that long and after I see the benefits of owning one. Number one is for sure an instant dope af outfit and the second- it really keeps you warm! This is the one piece I would dare to wear ripped jeans in winter.
Hi Simon,
Really helpful article. I was wondering if you can give me some additional advice. I’m looking to have two overcoats made. Out of the overcoat styles I really like the Ulster coat the most. (Your Liverano ulster is a true grail item). My daily wear predominantly exist of casual wear. Think denim, chinos, ocbd’s and sweatshirts. Would a navy ulster coat fit in terms of style and formality or would a navy topcoat be the more versatile coat? And what would your second choice be? I’m leaning to a wide herringbone brown Ulster…
Hey Mike,
With that kind of wardrobe, I think you’ll struggle a bit to find overcoat styles that work for you.
A navy ulster might be OK, but make sure it’s a wool with lots of texture in there – like the Harris Tweed of my Liverano.
A polo coat might also be good, like my Anthology one.
But really this coat style is a bit smart for the other things you’re wearing, and something like the Donegal Raglan coats we’ve been doing on PS (and there are many others out there) is probably going to be more suitable.
Thanks for taking the time to reply! Really helpful. As a psychologist i’m really hesitant about dressing more formal than I currently do, but perhaps some tailored trousers and Finer knitwear doesn’t create too much of a gap between me and the client. I reckon that in this case it would be easier to incorporate an overcoat.
I really like the fabric you’ve used on the recent donegal coat. Unfortunately I can’t get used to the raglan sleeves.
Yes, I think a combination like that simply looks well put together – nice trousers, nice knit
Ok. I’ve ordered your donegal coat and I’m converted. The raglan coat sits really well on the shoulder without making them look smaller at all. The fabric is fantastic and I really like the weight and drape of the fabric. What do you reckon the ideal length of the coat should be? With 1.81 the size 5 falls 4 cm below the knee.
Amazing, good to hear Mike.
The length below the knee is a little bit a question of personal taste. I like it long, because I think it gives the coat more style without standing out at all. But you could go a little shorter if you wanted. The practical point is just that you want any rain to run off the coat and not land on your knee, soaking that and your shins.
I would wear it a few weeks and see how you feel about the length.
Great advise Simon. I’ve worn the coat for three weeks now and I really like the length. I’ve decided to leave the length this way.
Would you recommend the same size in your bridge coat?
The bridge coat is a rather different style – slim in the waist, bigger in the chest. Almost an inverted donegal coat!
Often people size up, but I wear the same size
Hello Simon!
As an Australian, from Queensland, I haven’t really needed an overcoat. But now I’m moving to a colder country and I’ll need to dress formally at work. Accordingly, I’m trying to follow your advice to first-timers – but it is surprisingly difficult to find the right thing!
My list of specs: formal, navy, double-breasted, woollen, and long past my knees. I have found cheap examples which are just about right in every way except quality of materials. The ones with lovely materials all stray too far from classic, or they’re the price of bespoke without any guarantee of a good fit.
My budget is around £800. Do you think I can find what I want – the classic navy overcoat you advise to first-time wearers – without going for bespoke? If so, where should I look?
Cheers
H
You should be able to, yes. Though most of the places we’d cover would be a bit more expensive. Look at places like Berg & Berg, P Johnson, Anglo-Italian maybe
Thanks! Would your answer change much if I extended my budget £1000-2000?
At that point you could look at MTM and lower bespoke makers, yes. There it’s best to look at the articles I’ve done summarising all my experiences with the different makers, at least for MTM. For bespoke, you’re limited to cheaper makers like Whitcomb & Shaftesbury perhaps.
Hi Simon
My compliments and my thanks for on your very informative article on overcoats and wonderful website. It is very difficult to find information on sich things nowadays. I am gathering information to buy my first Overcoat. You say that it should be between 600g and 700g. Do you mean by this 600-700gms or the whole coat? I was in touch with a tailor in Dublin and he told me 450gms is plenty for the Irish climate. I find it hard to fully believe someone who is trying to sell me something though. I’m 29 but I am sensitive to the cold in winter especially in my legs as even with long John’s the wind goes through them. I live in the Northwest of Ireland and the climate would be comparable to the Highlands of Scotland; windy and wild. Like you I am baffled my the pointlessness of a short coat that leaves your bottom half cold and exposed. I am between two minds also about the length; I am very keen to have it go over my knees as I have wear and tear from sports and I dearly want to keep them warm. Yet I am worried that I will look rather old and foolish with a long coat and 99.9% of ‘overcoats’ on the high street are above the knee. overcoat it’s What advice would you give me?
Hi Peter,
Lovely to hear from you, and I’m so pleased you find the site so useful.
The modern way is certainly for lighter coats, given people often don’t spend that much time outdoors. But I would certainly go for the heavier weight I suggested – that is for the metre of cloth, not the coat as a whole. Especially as you seem to feel the cold so much.
On the length, I would certainly go below the knee. Because it would have more style, because it sounds like you would appreciate the warmth, and because you can always shorten it later if you want, whereas it would be harder to lengthen it, at least by much.
A long coat will rarely look old fashioned. It’s much more likely to be the material and what else it’s worn with that would have something like that effect.
S
Thanks Simon, sound advice. The only thing that bothers me now is colours. I rarely wear suits, I don’t need them for work, only for the very odd formal occasion. I dress casually, usually wear knitwear, often jeans and tennis shoes. Work is similarly casual. I aim for it to be a coat I can wear everyday but of course it will be needed for the rare formal occasion.
Dark green and black are my staple colours as I feel they suit me the best.
My heart goes for a forest green/dark green overcoat, yet am concerned about it limiting me in what I can wear with it. A black overcoat is also at the back of my mind, but I would be concerned that it would be too grave and formal. What would you advise?
I’d look to something like a grey herringbone Peter – there are few outerwear colours that really bridge those levels of smartness, but mid-grey herringbone is one.